THE BEST HE EVER HAD?????
by eye_was_born_ready on Oct 8, 2009 7:35 PM CDT
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Hey every1. Self proclaimed Cavs fan #1 here. Just wanted to know your thoughts on a comment shaq made(http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-cavaliers-oneal&prov=ap&type=lgns&success=1#comments) about the Cavs being the best team he's ever played on. Believe me i am a loyal Cavs fan til death but personally I gotta say i think the Laker team with Karl Malone and Gary Payton was. But in all honesty this Cavs Team is looking brutal on paper and I can't wait to see how this season plays out.. I think having Shaq and Big Z together is going to be key as the Cavs make a run for the championship. They each play totally opposite but each plays very good at their respective styles of play which i believe will be hard for teams on defense because they constantly have to adjust through the course of a game. And other teams will have rebounding nightmares if mike brown decides to play them together at some point. Shaq put it well when he said him and Z equals the best center in the NBA. What do you think?
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There was a Fan Post about it this over at SSR also..
What does “best” and “team” mean or what did Shaq mean?
On paper yes the Malone, GP Lakers team was the best.
Success wise the Back to Back 15-1 playoff team was the best. But when it comes to Shaq I think that he hasn’t played long enough with the Cavs to say they are the best. So, the only thing I can assume he meant was in regards to the camaraderie. Even Laker fans will tell you that the old Shaq-Kobe teams were the most dysfunctional. So in that aspect Shaq is right.
Defensively – the Cavs Front line will have a harder time guarding the Magic and Lakers.
Offensively – The Cavs Front line will have a harder time scoring against Orlando.
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Oct 13, 2009 1:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He explicitly says “on paper”
Malone and Payton were old. Let’s not confuse them that year with them in their prime.
The best W-L team the Lakers put together with Shaq won 67 games (64 by Pyth).
The Cavs just won 66 games (65 by Pyth). They bring back their top 6 guys in minutes from last year, the top 5 being 27 or younger, and thus more likely to improve than decline. They replaced Wallace, Szcerbiak, and Pavlovic with Shaq, Parker, and Moon. Again, more likely to improve than decline. On paper, right now, the Cavs are better than they were last year.
And I’m not sure where you plan on defending those last two lines, but I have to disagree. Shaq makes playing the Magic much easier for the Cavs. They can double Howard less often, and thus cover their shooters more frequently. Also Howard, will be forced to guard someone instead of roaming in the lane focusing on Lebron.
And the Lakers? I’d like to see how the Cavs play them with a healthy West and Z before I make any judgements.
by 7foot3 on Oct 13, 2009 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This post was about past Shaq teams that he has been on in the past. It had nothing to do with Malone and Payton’s prime. Not sure what their prime had anything to do with this post.
The 67 win season by the Lakers already happened. You cannot compare fact from prediction whihc is what you are doing by saying that the cavs won 67 without certain players. Let’s wait until this season is over then we can compare records. The Suns fans made the same mistake by thinking that the Nash – Shaq combo was destined for success. NOT!
No issue with disagreeing it’s part of being fans from opposing teams. Just my opinion just as your statements are. They are neither wrong or right. If you look at the Poll Question that is just what I was doing which was answering it with the last two lines.
Well, we cannot go based on what we “think” will happen we just don’t know. This past year the Lakers swept the Cavs in the regular season without Bynum in the line up and the Cavs didn’t have Shaq so we will wait and see. Of course, I think the Lakers will win as you will say the same about the Cavs. By the way, I wasn’t making any judgements. These are just my opinions as I said earlier.
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Oct 13, 2009 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
7foot3,
by the way, I almost forgot this post isn’t about the Lakers vs the Cavs specifically but that comment about waiting for a healty West really caught my attention. If Cavs’ fans are pinning their title hopes or chances of winning on West that is a huge mistake. West at the least the 5 best player on the team. That is like me saying, “wait till Sasha gets his shot back”. he is the last player that I would mention because he is so meaningless. Now, before you take this in another direction and start comparing Sasha to West that is not what I am talking about. I am referring to both players significance or lack of it on each of their teams. West could come back 100% healthy and it wont matter. As a matter of fact, I would go as far as to say the Cav’s biggest reason for not making it to the Finals is due to their 2 guard position being the weakest.
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Oct 13, 2009 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was referring to last season when both West and Z missed that first matchup. But I am just guessing.
Look, I think Shaq is crazy for saying it myself, but nothing he said was too outrageous, for him anyways.
What we want to refrain from doing here …. again … is getting into another long drawn worthless discussion about Lakers vs Cavs (or Kobe vs LeBron) debates. They usually end up in a bunch of name calling which nobody really cares for.
If you want to discuss hoops, strategies, etc., thats cool. We want intelligent basketball discussions. But please leave the message board rhetoric to the ESPN boards. This also applies to all Magic, Celtics, and LeBron haters out there.
by talonk on Oct 13, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I appreciate the warning about this becoming a “name calling” session but that isn’t the case in this situation so we should be fine.
That was my first intention which was to discuss hoops, strategies, etc. You way you want intelligent baskeball discussions. But that point is meaningless because that is exactly what it was. Unless you are going out of your way to say that my comments were not. Whatever it is that you are worried about that is not happening in this conversation. So just give us your input and make it intelligent. The only thing that is making this conversation something that it isn’t is your comments. But go back and read what I posted and nothing indicates that I was trying to stay off topic. But read the Cavs’ fans post and you will realize that it was he that made this into a Lakers vs. Cavs conversation. So I hope you are aiming this at Cavs fans also.
This is the comment that started it all:
And the Lakers? I’d like to see how the Cavs play them with a healthy West and Z before I make any judgements.
It wasn’t from me. Please get is straight rather let your bias for your team control your comments.
"When I walked into the locker room on my first day as a Laker and saw my gold uniform hanging there, I cried." - Magic Johnson (Best Laker Ever)
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Oct 16, 2009 9:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it wasn’t anything you said.
I was directing that at any of the other Laker posters who loved to come over here last year and taunt us. Not to mention the gamut of Lebron bashers who also love to come here just to post nonsense.
The gist of my post to you was the first comment. I thought he was referring to the first game last season when both West and Z missed the game in LA.
by talonk on Oct 17, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I made a statement on how the Cavs match up with the Magic, and then the Lakers. I think we’ll have a hard time saying how the Cavs and Lakers would matchup in a postseason series. And I feel I better explained my point below, which you haven’t responded to. And please, please don’t come here and accuse a Cavs fan of letting bias control their comments. I feel I shouldn’t have to explain how ridiculous that is.
by 7foot3 on Oct 19, 2009 5:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“And please, please don’t come here and accuse a Cavs fan of letting bias control their comments. I feel I shouldn’t have to explain how ridiculous that is.”
Because Cavs fans aren’t biased? Just Laker fans right?…..LOL.
PAGFL is one of the least biased fans out there. If you wan’t to create phony bias, that is your prerogative, but given that statement above your credibility is shrinking.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
by pslakerfan on Oct 22, 2009 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cavs fans can certainly be biased. But this site is for Cavs fans to talk about the Cavs. Not for Laker fans to hijack and make espn.com comments toward Cavs fans.
by 7foot3 on Oct 22, 2009 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
espn.com comments?
Where are those? Go back to PAGFL’s original post and track who started the hijack here. If you don’t want opposing teams fans commenting here maybe you should make a rule about it. There is no hijacking here, just overreactions on your part. Relax.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
by pslakerfan on Oct 22, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he’s referring to the many, many, many times over the past year where Lakers fans have invaded our blog just to bash LeBron and the Cavs.
And “espn.com comments” are the type of idiotic comments you would see on espn.com and other message boards which are overrun by morons. Those are the type of comments posted by most Lakers fans who come here just to start trouble. Now, obviously all Lakers fans aren’t like that, but unfortunately that’s been our experience with most of them.
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 22, 2009 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We all get our share of idiots......
At Silver Screen and Roll, we hear “Kobe the Rapist”, “Fakers”, “*akers”, etc. every day. I understand all about it. I just think he didn’t give anyone a chance to “troll”. He just assumed, Laker fan = troll.
Never heard the term espn.com comments, but I understand the comments. Try being an Angel fan in October. ESPN couldn’t find Anaheim if they had Mickey Mouse shoved up their asses.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
by pslakerfan on Oct 23, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we’ve now gotten to the point where we argue over who’s making the inappropriate reactions. Here’s the deal, the Laker fans that have come here have only responded to my posts dealing more with the emotion side, and have completely ignored my post about what’s really happening on the court. If you really wanted to come talk basketball, it would have been the other way around.
by 7foot3 on Oct 26, 2009 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think people highly underrate what West brings to the table. The Cavs were much better with him on the court than off (+3.2 per 100 possessions vs -7.3). And according to Wages of Wins, he was one of the better players both on the team and in the league. He may not be the difference maker, but playing him, or Parker, instead of Pavlovic, represents a huge upgrade for the Cavs.
Malone and Payton’s prime is important to look at here. Just because that Laker team had the most names doesn’t mean it was the best. Yes, that team was still great, but I’ll take the team that clearly had more wins and a greater scoring differential than any other team Shaq was on.
And we’re talking about “on paper” and seemingly, right now. We can only use predictions for the Cavaliers 09-10 season. On paper, the Cavs team dominated the league just as much as that Lakers team, and improved. Whether it ends up like that, you’re right, we have to wait and see. But right now, on paper, it’s pretty easy to make the case that this is the best team Shaq has ever been on.
by 7foot3 on Oct 14, 2009 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Delonte West is underrated. He has no real weakness other than size. He gives you something positive in all aspects of the game.
outside shooting
dribble penetration
passing
steals
and he goes out and guards guys usually 3or4 inches taller than him and does a hell of a job. I
Hey... Cleveland happens.
by zdub1983 on Oct 27, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You watched Cavs games too huh? I think people forget what Delonte does for the Cavs. He guarded Hedu pretty much the whole series.
by The naome40 on Oct 29, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
West adds so much to this team. If it wasn’t for him wqe would have never been so close to the finals.n He plays good defense and he can create his own shot. Plus he gives others time on the bench to get fresh.
As soon as the new guys understand their role, this team is going to be amazing to watch. The Cavs are the deepest they have ever been.
by The naome40 on Oct 29, 2009 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Question...
Why did you neglect to put Kendrick Perkins and Glen Davis as part of the Celtics frontline? That Celtics frontline is defensively the best the Cavs will face all year and will be the most troublesome due to the fact that 3 of them have the ability to play on the perimeter, yet still defend the paint. Sorry guys, but Shaq won’t know what way to turn trying to guard any of Boston’s frontcourt players.
by sexyscottish on Oct 13, 2009 9:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Answer
That’s insane. Shaq won’t know what to do guarding Kendrick Perkins and Glen Davis? I don’t even know how to respond to something so blatantly ridiculous. As for Shaq guarding the one good big man they have, he has a surprising good track record against Garnett. I seem to recall Shaq doing pretty well against KG last year and historically speaking.
"I’m tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok." ~Shaq
by Max_in_Missouri on Oct 14, 2009 12:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just the size of shaq cancels out perk
perk is good with most centers because centers now and days dont really play physical,
shaq on the other hand has played VERY physical throughout his career so perk will have trouble trying to body shaq.
just curious does anyone have shaqs stats against perk?
by true_lakerfan on Oct 14, 2009 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot...
Perkins is a lot quicker than Shaq and he can outrun him up and down the court with ease. And despite losing 20 pounds in the offseason, Perkins actually gained more muscle and strength. He can still guard Shaq good enough so we won’t have to worry about double teaming him.
by sexyscottish on Oct 26, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perkins hasn't be able to guard Shaq straight up in the past
…but you just assume he can now?
I’m sorry, but looking like a constipated, muscle-bound fetus is not going to give Perk enough of an advantage to where he can handle Shaq 1 on 1.
"I’m tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok." ~Shaq
by Max_in_Missouri on Oct 27, 2009 3:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what we're all forgetting.....
We can beat Boston without Shaq!
Done. I rest my case.
Hey... Cleveland happens.
by zdub1983 on Oct 27, 2009 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also forgot about Artest....
Odom doesn’t/won’t even start. Don’t even get me started on the spelling of “Pao”.
Billy Mac: "Lamar, can you see yourself actually getting in the (boxing) ring"?
Lamar Odom: "No. My face is too pretty."
by pslakerfan on Oct 22, 2009 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BEST?
um that would be up to debate because the Lakers won it all 3 times in a row with shaquille and if the Cavs dont win at least one? then i would say shaq is not being 100% honest with us at all.
the best player he’s ever played with? i think so! i mean Lebron is much better than Kobe was when Shaq was there and we all know about the drama that went on between them while they were winning, so shaq could be talking out of possible disgust with a former team (lakers) but who knows? i havent done the statistics comparisons yet to say that this Cavs team is better on paper than his 3 peat Lakers were so maybe shaq is telling “half truths”
"minds sharpens minds, like steel sharpens steel"
by NELLY808 on Oct 29, 2009 6:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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