Why the Cavs are in trouble with or without Lebron
by Scal4theallstargame on Dec 21, 2009 7:00 PM CST
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Lebron is a brilliant player. May even go down as the best ever once all is said and done but the Cavs are in trouble and I’ll tell you why. With the exception of Bron Bron this team has no all stars (and no, Mo and Shaq aren’t all stars, more on that later). All the Championship contenders have at least 2 all stars with the exception of Cleveland.
Compare the Cavs starting lineup to the top 2 teams in the NBA, the Celtics and the Lakers. Where would the Cavs starters (main men) be in their lineups. This is purely based on talent and not team chemistry.
Shaq would be backing up both Bynum and Perkins (who are not all stars……. yet).
Verejao or Hickson would be the 3 rd PF for each team. Behind Odom in LA and Sheed in Boston.
James would start on either team.
Parker would back up Bryant in LA and would be fighting with Eddie House for the 2nd SG position in Boston.
Mo Williams would start in LA and come off the bench to spell Rondo (who is not an all star) in Boston.
The tragic thing about the Cavs is the fact that management have $64m committed to role-players this season, role players who without Lebron would be out of the playoffs and probably closer to the likes of the Bulls and Knicks. Even more tragic is the way the fact Cavs management have run the team in such a way that they will be stuck with this group for the next couple of years without any cap space to sign an all star. Maybe you’ll get a trade like the one that LA got in 08 where they traded a dead fish and an old sock for Gasol but don’t count on it.
I’m not saying Lebron can’t win the championship by himself but it’s unlikely. Please don’t argue, just look deep into your heart and you know what you just read is true.
This is a Fan-Created Comment on FearTheSword.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff at FearTheSword
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I totally agree. We’re not pulling out the stops. We need more effort, but I really don’t think we have a chance unless Shaq starts fitting in better. Also, when it comes to the future, our only hope is that Lebron somehow decides to take the minimum contract- which sounds ridiculous, I know, but think about it. If he took a minimum contract, the Cavs woul;d be able to sign the star they want next year. Also, Lebron would make so much more money on capitalizing on the minimum contract- in fact, he could even donate that contract to charity or something, and the Nike could have commercials saying “You thought no NBA player would ever play for free. Well, how about the best one?”
Of course, this is very unlikely. In fact, I completely doubt it would happen. But, I’m not totally crazy. Here’s an article that really underlined it.
http://fredleach.posterous.com/why-lebron-should-take-a-queue-from-steve-job
It’s seems ingenious to me that he did this. The Cavs- forget just Wade or Bosh how about both? I would love to see this happen.
Obviously, I’m getting all this from the article, but I really think it’s a great idea, and SOMEONE needs to tell Lebron!!! Otherwise, I think the Cavs ARE screwed.
The “Shaq fitting in better” thing boils down to this: Mike Brown has no clue how to use him…Shaq doesn’t play well posting high…it takes an entry pass, pass back out, re-post lower, entry pass, post move and hopefully score…sure, Shaq can set very effective middle to high screens but don’t expect him to roll to the hoop from 8-12 feet out…or to sink a turn-around…ANYONE who has watched a Cavs game this year knows what I’m saying here…how many teams have tried to use Shaq in the way MB does??…SOMEONE needs to tell MB that no matter how much or how hard you force it, a square peg will NEVER fit in a round hole without breaking one or the other, or both
by cavslandrocks on Dec 25, 2009 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
You are mad
why don’t he get a max contract from the like of Miami and plays with Wade
or
max contract in NJ and plays with Lopez
or
max contract in NY and plays with Gallinari and Chandler
Imagine Gallinari hitting the open 3s from LBJ’s kick out
Why would he want a minimum contract in Cleveland…. think of it this way, he is the most competitive person on the face of the planet, he want to be paid 4,500 best player? less than Gibson LOL
Cleveland do have bird rights so they can resign him for a max deal
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 5, 2010 5:19 PM CST up reply actions
The comment was that LBJ would sign for the minimum
so Wade can sign a max contract
Wade has made it pretty clear that he does not want to go to Cleveland. But lets just start a rumor. You know how Lebron is changing his number from 23 to 6 next season "out of respect for Michael Jordan" and that’s very noble and all but what if he’s changing it so that he can go to one of 3 teams that have retired the number 23. And seems like all 3 teams are clearing cap space to sign a marquee player next season.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 5, 2010 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
LeBron has said the most important thing to him is winning championships. This is definitely the best way to do it. If he’s serious about it he’ll consider it.
by CameronGreen11 on Jan 14, 2010 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
I know I'm going to get slammed... but...
I am just getting a little bit tired about how the Lakers get painted with the criminal brush everytime the Gasol trade gets mentioned – People focus on Kwame Brown and look as if it was a Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol swap…. well it wasn’t. Memphis wanted to lose payroll and get out from under the Gasol contract…. the gold in that trade wasn’t Kwame Brown (a former 1st overall pick – I know that means bupkis…) but Javaris Crittendon was playing fairly well in garbage time for the Lakers… BUT the real gold was also a Gasol…. Marc Gasol… Memphis got a healthy 7 footer with a meager contract who has given them 14pts and 10 rebounds a game – wheras his big brother is giving the Lakers 17pts and 13 rebounds.. for what? 10 times the money? I predict that little Marc is going to have a nice career in this league… Be honest – most folks are pissed because the Lakers got stronger, but I’ll tell you – Phil Jackson could have done something with Marc had he been put in that position…… So it wasn’t quite a dead fish and an old sock….Memphis hasn’t looked as bad as some teams in the league this year. There I said it I meant it… You guys are animals, don’t change!
Ok buddy
So Kwame is getting 4 points and 4 rebounds a game in 15 minutes this year on a sub .500 team = old sock. Jarvaris has not played a minute this season = dead fish. Whats that Pau Gasol guy doing? Yes I know they where clearing cap space but that has to go down as the steal of the decade.
by Scal4theallstargame on Dec 22, 2009 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
no complaints here,
Our front office is the shizzle!!
Little brother would have done ok in the triangle, but he would have taken time to develop while big bro is made for it and fit in perfect. I also was a bit sad we got rid of javaris.
" I'm a human, not a sandwich"
by true_lakerfan on Dec 23, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
The steal of the decade was when the Cavs sucked so bad and were actually rewarded with a once in a generation type of player. Kobe whining about his teammates and getting rewarded with one of the best second banana guys in the league.
The NBA just isn’t fair!
Also I agree with lakerfan. Marc doesn’t fit nearly as well as Pau with Bynum and Odom in the front court and would probably be a productive bench player at best for the Lakers.
The team as a whole can be the second star
Jordan did it in Chicago. He was such a powerful personality that he brought the best out of his teammates. However, this took some time. Scottie was not the great Scottie Pippen in the beginning. Jordan elevated his plan along with other role players.
I know this is not a new argument but lets face the facts. It’s going to be difficult to get another young superstar in Cleveland unless that person reeeeeaaally wants to play with LeBron. Cleveland is not a major market and we have a history being cheap with our sports teams (unless of course, we are dealing with an average or over the hill player – then we overpay).
No it can't
Jordan did not win until Pippen was a superstar. Jordan was the number 1 SG in the league in the 90’s but Pippen was the number 1 SF in the league (correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m not). They also had Grant who put up 13p 9r figures and Rodman later on who up 5p 15r figures. Lebron doesn’t even have that not does it look like he will get it any time soon.
Perhaps they will be able to trade Shaq or Z (old fish and Big slow) and their comparative salaries for a pissed Boozer or Bosh or some other big talent then the Cavs will have a real good shot at multiple championships. But not this team.
by Scal4theallstargame on Dec 22, 2009 11:20 PM CST reply actions
Bosh coming here would be my dream scenario. Boozer on the other hand…i dont see him coming here after the way he and the team parted ways last time.
by CavsLebronFan on Dec 23, 2009 7:12 AM CST up reply actions
Would they have achieved that status without Mike?
No, Rodman and Grant were role players, period. We have those. Pippen only became a superstar because Jordan stayed in his ear, feeding him confidence. This is what great players do. And its no coincidence that LeBron began doing that in the off season with JJ. He did it for Andy and Mo last year and he’ll keep doing it until these guys have the same confidence on the road that they do at home. We don’t like waiting until but this is how you do it in a small media market.
Have you forgotten that Chicago was a joke of a town (as it relates to pro basketball) prior to Jordan? Nobody wanted to go there.
by cavsfancanton on Dec 23, 2009 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah but if he wants to win LeBron better help those guys out pretty quickly before he leaves next year for New York
Shaquille O'Neal: "Tell him Shaq doesn’t respond to juvenile delinquents without a college degree. Tell him to get his degree, and we can talk. In the meantime, he should call me Dr. Shaq because I’m working on my PhD." (Referring to 17-year-old rookie Andrew Bynum, who compared himself to Shaq…except that he can make free throws.)
(courtesy of www.shaqquotes.com)
Yes
Grant was a role player but he was better than any of the role players Lebrons playing with. Rodman was a 2 time champion and 2 time defensive player of the year before he teamed up with Jordan, he already achieved that status, period. I don’t disagree that Jordan had a major influence on Pippen becoming a superstar but he would have done that anyway. Pippen was very green when he entered the NBA he would have become a superstar eventually.
And Cleveland was a joke of a basketball town before Lebron ………… Oh wait ……….. it still is. If Lebron really wants to win championships then he will go to Miami (who would have cap room to sign him) next season and join Wade and Beasley. That would be a team to fear for the next 5-7 years. The Cavs have blown their whole salary cap (and then some) on junk and they have nothing else to offer Lebron in the short term.
by Scal4theallstargame on Dec 23, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
Chicago's role players look better in hind sight
Grant didn’t come into his own until Chicago was contending for championships. Rodman was a Rasheed Wallace. He brought just as many problems as he did benefits. The rest of those guys were background players until Mike brought the best out of them (Bill Cartwright, B J Armstrong, Steve Kerr, etc.). Remove Jordan and you wouldn’t remember any of them.
The biggest testament to what I’m saying is the fact that they had to break up the team after Mike left and most of those guys either disappeared or became role players for another team.
by cavsfancanton on Dec 24, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
Um.....
Lebron leaving for Miami? i do not think so, he has every intention on staying and winning one with Cleveland, how do i know? well he is not even done building his dream home in Ohio yet and the Mansion is humongous! he and his family are looking forward to occupying that thing which features a basketball gym a bowling alley amongst other luxuries..why in the world would he leave when he is in the middle of a huge investment for both him and his family?
Bosh or Wade will not leave their situations to come to Cleveland, i do not believe the Cavs need another big star in order to win a championship, look at what we accomplished last season without Shaq!…all we need is better offensive strategies and for us to utilize each and every one of our players in the manner which best suits their abilities, asking too much from them just to keep pace with Bron is just unfair.
Jordan’s Bulls were so succesful because he made everyone around him better, he stepped up the defensive intesity and was agressive on the offesnse end and his teammates followed suit.
Lebron is in the same situation as Jordan was in when he started out in the league, surrounded by role players and deciding what to do with them, i believe LBJ will in time learn how to exploit his teammates strengths in order to make them better, but the factor that is missing in the Bulls/Cavs equation is that the Bulls had “Phil Jackson’s brilliance” and that is what is missing from this Cavs team…a formidable battle plan that is conceived by a true General…or should i say …“a real coach”
Another missing piece of the puzzle would be a true PG so Lebron doesnt have to handle so much of the offense, and when LBJ is out, the PG can help keep the original game plan by helping to keep the offense balanced.
"minds sharpens minds, like steel sharpens steel"
Amen Nelly808
I couldn’t have said it better. The height of our guards will once again be a factor this post season. Orlando just shot over the top of them and looked much better than they really were.
by cavsfancanton on Dec 25, 2009 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
Pippen was one of the best defenders in the league
that is why Chicago won, Pippen was the defense star, even when he was not a great offensive player until Jordan retired
In case you missed last year’s playoff … no pippens → lost to Orlando
Cavs didn;t lose becasue they didn't have a pippen
They lost because they didn’t have length to guard against a point forward and a power forward that could shoot threes.
Put you make a good point. Michael would ahve never won those title without Pippen.
by KBZ on Jan 5, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
Why are you all arguing against facts
I never said Bron will go to Miami, I don’t think he will. All I said was he will have an extremely strong chance at winning multiple championships if he does (along with the $$$ that comes with winning).
I hope I don’t turn this into a Pippen argument but he was the best SF of the 90’s. HE WAS NOT A ROLE PLAYER. He might win "a" championship with the plebs he’s teamed up with now but its unlikely. Imagine if he was teamed up with an allstar (even a borderline one) like Ray Allen. Another guy that can score 20+ points a game. And no that’s not Mo and It’s not Shaq anymore. It would be lights out for the rest of the league but the Cavs have set up this team up to satisfy Lebron "I’m gonna leave unless you get me some good players" James and in the process they got reasonable players that turned out to be crap.
Larry and Drew then Ben and Wally now Shaq and Mo.
Also can you please name one team that has won a championship with just 1star?
by Scal4theallstargame on Dec 23, 2009 10:11 PM CST reply actions
Agree
Boston had the big three
LA had Shaq and Kobe and then Kobe and Gasol
Detroit had 4 all stars
Spurs had Timmy and Robinson/Tony
Showtime had Magic, Kareem and Worthy
Chicago had Jordan and Scottie
80’s Celtics had Bird McHale and Parish
You get the point
Shaquille O'Neal: "Tell him Shaq doesn’t respond to juvenile delinquents without a college degree. Tell him to get his degree, and we can talk. In the meantime, he should call me Dr. Shaq because I’m working on my PhD." (Referring to 17-year-old rookie Andrew Bynum, who compared himself to Shaq…except that he can make free throws.)
(courtesy of www.shaqquotes.com)
Agree
I get the point you are a Douchebag.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 25, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How about the 94 Rockets??
How about the 94 Rockets?? The first year they won before Clyde Drexler or Barkley or anyone was there???
Their 2nd leading scorer was freakin’ Otis Thorpe.
One word. Boom.
Also can you please name one team that has won a championship with just 1star?
Hey... Cleveland happens.
oh my, that Cavs sure are in trouble, you’ve enlightened all of us. Go forth and preach my good sir, you are truly the all knowing one! Cleveland fans, slice your wrists and jump from buildings because we are all doomed! And this enlightened one will be there right next to you to tell you that he was right when it happens! Oh woe are we! I mean he tells us what is already in our hearts, a true sage!
Yes, I remember Pippen taking them to East Finals when Jordan played baseball
If you recall, the same basic team was still in tack. And notice, I didn’t deny that Pippen became great. I’m just saying that Jordan invested in him and built up his confidence just as LeBron is doing for his teammates.
BTW, the only way LeBron will leave Cleveland is if a supertstar on another team takes a serious pay cut. Otherwise, he’ll be starting all over and that doesn’t make sense.
Well, all things aside, what really bears consideration ultimately is that this is not a championship team…something that this team was supposedly built for., and what I fretted about during the offseason.
Anything less than a Finals appearance could and should be considered a serious disappointment. This is not going to happen things being as they are.
Right now, as much as I love these guys…the writing is on the wall. I hope something can be done about it.
They played the Lakers like a Championship Team tonight
If they would just bring this intensity on a regular basis, they could win this thing. The bench showed up and it made all the difference in the world. Shaq took high percentage shots and played good defense. Both Moon and Parker were outstanding to assist LeBron and Mo with a dominating win.
by cavsfancanton on Dec 25, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions
A Hawks fan here
I enjoyed this post, so wanted to contribute. I follow the Cavs from ATL, so think of me as a BIG fan of the Hawks.
Cavs fans, you have a special player in LeBron. He is the kind that by himself, and some average players make a team GREAT. The comparisons to Jordan are valid. Do not forget it took Michael a few years to start putting a winning tradition together. Pieces had to be put together around them. The pieces Cavs have now, are sufficient to win a championship. This is the year, and you have now with addition of Shaq, the player that can push Howard around. We all know what happens to Howard when he plays against muscle men.
With that said, i so love to see LeBron play with intensity. Yesterday’s game was that. He plays at a level not possible by others in the NBA. Even the GREAT Kobe. But he has to play at that level consistently. That was Jordan, high intensity all the time, why he is the GREATEST. LeBron, from an outsider perspective, seems sometimes to be having a little too much fun. That is ok, a function of being a puppy. He will learn.
As for future, I think LeBron can’t get any more exposure in NY or other places that he would in Cleveland. Give him the world from a financial perspective, and all the sponsorships he desires he already has. Make him feel special, because he is special. He is going to have to not just rule Cleveland, but all of Ohio (a difficult thing with football), that is how he will stay.
The EAST completion have to do with match-ups. Of the four top teams, history shows, assuming Celtics remain healthy (a big assumption for a old team), Cavs win against the Celtics. They win against the Hawks(we have improved, but I am afraid not as much as beating the Cavs, couple games soon will show), they have problems with Majic, which is why you got Diesel. Celtics, win against Majic, tough against the Cavs, lose to Hawks, they hate the long tall players that run constantly against them in Hawks. Orlando, is tough on my Hawks, win against the Cavs (but again watch the Diesel comment), and lose to Celtics.
One thing is for sure, the top three teams remain Hawks, Orlando, Cavs for the long term.
Good luck and remember you have a GREAT team and trust me from an outsider perspective, y ‘all are championship material because of the King.
+10000000
I don’t speak for everybody here, but thank you for those comments. You lost me a bit on the fifth paragraph regarding Eastern Conference match-ups, but other than that, the rest of your statement seems to be concise, genuine, and not patronizing one bit. Did I mention it is such a sight for sore eyes to see a respectful fan from another team? I cannot thank you enough, especially after last night (see Cavs Vs. Lakers game thread). I have to be honest, I thought that your Hawks team had a flash in the pan moment, but I stand corrected. Not because I am fawning over your comment, but because I am a true NBA fan and watch other matches not involving the Cavs. I see the young talent in Josh Smith and Al Horford maturing and meshing in with the veteran power that is Mike Bibby and Joe Johnson. I still am leery about Marvin Williams over CP3 or DWill, but he’s becoming quite a role player. And with Jamal Crawford bolstering the bench effort, the Atlanta Hawks are not to be taken lightly. Cheers to you sir, and I do hope my reply was not patronizing in any manner at all.
Canadian Cavalier (or bandwagon fan if you purists must insist)
You beat me to it Lex
I agree 100% with your response to ATLpaul
troll town
my response to this insane post:
1. the celtics and lakers have had two of the softest schedules in the league. meanwhile, the cavs have played more road games than any team in the league. take a look and see who has more quality wins. lets talk in a few weeks when the celtics stagger home from their upcoming roadtrip.
2. your player-by-player comparison is both hilarious and absurd, because it’s not about the talent, it’s about the matchups, you dingdong. and AP competing for minutes with eddie house? really? eddie house can make a spot up 3. sometimes. parker is a tough, defensive minded player who also happens to be leading the league in 3 point percentage. he makes eddie house look like eddie house’s son.
3. the cavs have tradeable assets that are actually valuable. by comparison, the C’s will be lucky to trade scal and tony allen for a happy meal. that is unless tony blows out his knee again while dunking after a whistle.
4. take your ignorant a$$ back to celticsblog and leave us alone. you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Come on
A happy meal for Scal and Tony!? We’d at least get dipping sauce with that.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 5, 2010 6:06 PM CST up reply actions
Or we could trade them for Shaq
He can start for us too …………… if Perk, Garnett and Sheed are all injured at the same time.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 7, 2010 9:00 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, cavs are in trouble, Blow the team up today and start again. Trade lebron for a draft pick. Trade mo for scalabrine. trade shaq for a packet of doritos. ITS ALL OVER PEOPLE!!!!!! blowout win over the lakers + winning 9 of the last 10 + having the 2nd best record in the east = we’re done. cavs are the worst team in the world. the team and its 24 year old superstar are over the hill, its been nice knowing you all, im going to burn my lebron jersey
/sarcasm.
Wow
That was hilarious. I must say, my cheeks were burning at first, then I realized you were joking, and I had a pretty good laugh. Thank you for that.
by CameronGreen11 on Dec 30, 2009 10:28 PM CST reply actions
seriously dude....
Cavs are in trouble? Mo ain’t an all star? Where is your argument coming from son? 17 points‚ 16 efficiency rating and he ain’t an all star? Hell I’d take LeBron plus the +11 role players (read: decent) over 2 “all stars” and 10 bums, per the Lakers or the Celtics. Come on-since joining the Celtics Ray has not played all star basketball, neither has KG. But they have been the best over-hyped starting ROLE-PLAYERS. MoLeBron+AP+Delonte+Gibson+AV+SHAQ+Moon+JJ+Z…. Give me ONE team that has an all out assault of talent that the Cavs have. The Cavs have Two top ten centers, four guards any team in the league would love to have, an athletic beast in Moon, a scrappy i-don’t-need-to-score-to-be-productive forward in Andy, and not to mention the greatest small forward this league has ever seen. Trouble? You can throw that out your head. Cavs are just fine.
I don't think the Cavs are in any trouble but I think he's referring to how Mo plays during the playoffs
Mo was putting up great number at this time last year enough for there to be outrage over an all-star snub, but once the playoffs came he just disappeared.
Also you’ve got to give the Celtics and Lakers credit. They are definetly not “2 all stars” and 10 bums. KG is a legit hall of famer and possibly Ray Allen and Paul Peirce. Rondo is putting up near all-star numbers and Perkins can effectively shut down most bigs in the league.
Kobe is one of the greatest players of all time and Pau Gasol the best number 2 player in the league. Ron Artest and Lamar Odom are both capable of handling the ball and posting up big numbers. Bynum is a 7 footer with a wicked post game that has scored 42 points on a team.
The Cavs are jsut fine the way they are, if they play with the fire they had when they played the Lakers, they should go very deep into the playoffs.
by KBZ on Jan 4, 2010 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
He disappeared?
He had one bad game. If you take his 2 point game out against Detroit, Mo averages 17.5 a game. Gasol average 18.3 a game in the playoffs last year. Outside of him, no other supporting Laker scored more than Mo.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 4, 2010 6:34 PM CST up reply actions
The cavs have 2 of the top 10 centres
BAHAHAHAHAHA!
I’ll Take Howard, Sheed, Perkins, Kaman, Bynam, J.O’Neal, Noah, Lopez, Lee, Jefferson, Bogut, Bargnani, M.Gasol, Nene, Okur, Okafor and Chandler over those “top 10 centres” any day and the Cavs would too.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 5, 2010 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
Shaq was definitely a top 10 center
about 3 years ago
Z was never a top 10 Center, can’t defend
um jack-ass
gasol ain’t a center, neither is j oneal. seriously-noah lopez bogut nene? yeah i believe every time the lake show plays their respective teams, the centers are getting ate up. um if i nought remember correctly shaq had the highest fg% in the league, while in terms of sheer skillset on the Center plane (notice i said CENTER) Z is literally second to none. yeah he wont dunk on you, but what second string center in the NBA can give you 20 points, and at least a 3 in a CLUTCH situation?
wrong
M.Gasol is a centre, J.O’Neal has only played centre in his NBA career and nothing else, they are centres. Z won’t dunk on you, he won’t defend you, he cant keep up with you. He may draw the opposing centres outside so that Bron can drive and dunk/dish.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 10, 2010 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
you knucklehead
J. O’neal has been a forward since Portland drafted him. I noticed you still haven’t answered my question…. and FYI the word is CENTER, not CENTRE, Dumbo.
J.O'Neal
Has played “CENTRE” for the last 9 years on 3 separate teams. He is a centre.
FYI, I’m not from the US which just happens to be the only English speaking country that spells centre as center. You ignorant wanker.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 11, 2010 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
hmm...
you are on an AMERICAN website, commenting on an AMERICAN sport, talking about AMERICAN athletes, while arguing with AMERICANS. Vis a vis- YOU ARE WRONG. I remember a post you had that spelled the contraction “you are (which is ’you’re)” “YOUR.” So in the UK or Zealand or Aussieland this is how they say YOU ARE?? Doubt it idiot. You can’t spell mate. Please wiki CENTRE and you will see the position CENTER as related to BASKETBALL. Also wiki O’neal…. he has only RECENTLY played CENTER. And FYI-America ain’t the only ones who spell it that way jerk. According to British English- a CENTRE is a place while the CENTER is the middle, as with the case of BASKETBALL- centers are in the middle. Case Rested.
wrong
he’s been in in the league for 14 years, so sans the past 9, what position was O’neal jabroni? PF, which is contradictory to this ill-informed statement
for the record
mo averages more than ray in three key stats-points rebounds and assists, not to mention has the leg up on him in efficiency. Also he gets more points than KG, so that makes two players that Mo is statistically better than, yet you warrant these two all star accolades. oh and made 3’s-Mo is better than Allen fyi.
"mo averages more than ray in three key stats-points rebounds and assist"
You neglected to mention that Ray is better in almost every other catagory on a team that shares the ball and has 5 players averaging over 12 points a game, not just 2. If Ray was in Mo’s position as the second option for the Cavs he would be averaging 20ppg.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 7, 2010 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
What other stats is Ray better than Mo in
that even remotely matter?
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 8, 2010 6:54 PM CST up reply actions
Look
If you have a team with the best player in the NBA and he’s surrounded by crap shoots (88 Bulls) then the smallest piece of crap seems like a reasonable if not good player (Mo Williams). Then when some good players join the team that player that was second in the pecking order suddenly drops to sixth.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 10, 2010 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Evasiveness
and conjecture seems to be all you bring to the conversation.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 12, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
You keep telling yourself that
Mo is a all-star
The world is still turning
LBJ will resign
Mo is not in the top 10 PG of the leagur
Is he better than
Deron Williams
Jason Kidd
Chris Paul
Rajon Rondo
Billup
Nash
Calderron
Davis
Ellis
He would be close to
Rose, Harris, Nelson, Westbrook etc
He is average
Since Mo is a shooting guard
I wouldn’t expect him to be. And yes, he is better than all but the Top 3 and Billups/Nash.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 5, 2010 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
offensively maybe
not when you count D as well
Forgot about Parker as well
This is laughable
stat wise, he is better than those on the list sans those I excluded.
Other than your own personal beliefs, you have nothing to back up any of the statements you’ve made.
Is this an NBA exclusive thing? The NFL and MLB blogs on SBN I go to don’t let other teams’ fans troll based on nothing but pure conjecture.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 6, 2010 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
Laughable
“Stat wise” he is better
That is laughable, you should maybe chat with other people
Most people would say Nelson outplayed him last year in the Orlando series
A guy scoring 30ppg is good “stat wise” but if he is letting in 40 he is hurting the team
So, which player that he was guarding was he giving up
40 a game to?
Again, you are making things up.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 6, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
Wait, are we talking about Jameer Nelson
a guy who DIDN’T PLAY in the Eastern Conference Finals?
Smooth.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 6, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
who put up 40 on mo???
nelson didn’t play, mo is in an offence that rotates about 4 guards and the magics guards NEVER combined for 40. the bigs from 3 to 5 did all the damage.
If Mo's a shooting guard
Then I’ll take Mayo, Bryant, Wade, Igudala, Carter, Gordon, Jackson, Hamilton, J.Johnson, Roy, Martin and yes, Allen any day.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 5, 2010 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
Bryant, Wade, Carter, Gordon, Jackson, Roy
That’s it. Those are the ones better offensively than Mo.
by Hardcore Legend on Jan 6, 2010 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
You obviously don't watch much NBA
Because even the most die hard Cavs fan would trade Williams for Joe Johnson in a heartbeat. Mo Williams is not a top 20 guard in this league. He was the second best player on a 30 win team 3 years straight before coming to Cleveland. He’s the 2nd best player on the Cavs too which tells you one thing. Lebron is an amazing player to keep this team of overpaid poop in playoff contention.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 6, 2010 5:18 PM CST up reply actions
lol
hold on, i agree with you on Kobe Joe Wade and Martin- but the rest? GTFOH- you are stating name brands now. for instance- VC. his game is shooting now is it not? minus a point for something Mo does better than he. Gordon? same boat as VC. RIP HAMILTON????! Do you live in California too? I mean I know we are known for great weed but thats crazy… and for the record Allen Iverson DOES NOT fit in ANY winning NBA offence.
Retard
Your wrong and you may notice I was quoting surnames, so why would I put Allen ‘Iverson’ at the end of that. I meant Ray Allen and stop smoking.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 10, 2010 5:32 PM CST up reply actions
OK
my mistake. But no comment on my post bro? I must’ve really shut you the hell up if you’re nit-picking on a misunderstanding such as similar names. Ray Allen < Maurice Williams. That funny looking symbol in between those names means "less than. " Oh and since I am a “retard” how is it that even I notice that you cannot spell…? “Your wrong…”??? My wrong what? Damn if I’m retarded, you must be the breed of person that even “retarded” people make fun of…nice going Woody Woodpecker.
Wrong
As in the previous statement you made about shooting guards was "wrong". So I wasn’t avoiding the discussion but simply pointing out that your statements are incorrect. VC has fallen in love with his jumpshot but still drives more than MW. BG and Rip are very similar players as in they are almost exclusive jump shooters but offensively they still command more respect than MW.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 11, 2010 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
PLEASE!!!!!!
They command WHAT? Seriously, you have a major bone to pick with Mo. Ben Gordon and Rip aren’t even on All-Star Ballots, but they’re commanding more respect huh I don’t know the last time you watched a Cavs game, but Mo’s usually being played as hard as LeBron these days, still, as the no. 2 option on his team, putting up 18 a game with a staggering +17 EFF rating, something Rip nor Ben aren’t even close to doing.
Moooooooooo..
I am so tired of dumping losses (and all the negative comments that come with it) on MO …it’s like everytime i watch a Cavs game i am just rooting for him to rip the opposing team a new one. I just want him to do good and be more agressive, so the guy does not get kudos for his defense?! he does so much other things well enough for us to have a chance to beat any team in the league and that’s what makes him okidoki in my books… GO MO!
"minds sharpens minds, like steel sharpens steel"
Relax
We can’t have knee jerk reactions to every game, good or bad. The Cavs have been going going going, game after game. We had a lot of games in a short period of time, you’re going to hit a brick wall sooner or later where you can’t get the energy up for a game.
Even if the Bobcats just have our number, we don’t have to be concerned about that because they definately won’t face us in the playoffs. Even if they did, they couldn’t beat us four times with proper rest, etc..
Losses like these don't usually mean anything
Lakers got swept by Charlotte last year and they still go the title.
by KBZ on Jan 5, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
This post has made me realise a few things
1.The Cavs truly do not have another top 10 at his position player other than Lebron.
2.With that said. The Cavs would have as many wins as the likes of the Wizards and Knicks if he was not on the team.
3.Which also says that Lebron does not win the MVP this season then someone is getting a lifetime achievement award similar to what Bryant got in 08.
4.Cavs fans are ultra defensive.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 5, 2010 6:01 PM CST reply actions
Sorry
without LBJ, the goto guy is Williams, who led a more talented Milwakee team to 20 wins,
I would say Cleveland would be a 20 win team without LBJ
I cannot see a lot of other scoring from the likes of Verajo, Hickson, Parker, West etc… they are more 10-12 ppg players
Shaq is a 20-25 min player as is Z these day
I think Cleveland would have trouble scoring 90 most nights without LBJ
Somewhat disagree
Just as I said, Wizards and Knicks. I think they will be better than 20 wins. Perhaps 25-30.
by Scal4theallstargame on Jan 5, 2010 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
I call foul
you enter a post named cavs in trouble, on a CAVS FAN BLOG, discounting the team as a whole, while vehemently trashing the players on said team and expect us to react, how? cavs fans are ultra defensive? that statement alone shows me you posted your nonsense to troll, while expecting everyone to accept it as absolute and that warrants a BAN. and for the ridiculous number 2 thing you have “realized,” The Cavs win as a team, mostly due to defense. I take you are the atypical “non-LeBron” fan so you doubt he has defence, so oppositional to that statement, without lbj the cavs wouldn’t be the team they are granted, they still would be one of the top 5 teams in the east.
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