Cavaliers deliver in Christmas beatdown of Lakers
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on Dec 25, 2009 8:07 PM CST
in 2009 Post Game Recap
74 comments
Shaq vs. Kobe has become a holiday tradition along the lines of Miracle on 34th Street and A Christmas Story. Every year, it seems, regardless of where Shaq is playing, the NBA schedule-makers like to send Shaq's team west to face Kobe. It was no different this season as the Cavaliers met Kobe's Lakers at Staples Center. LA, who beat the Cavaliers twice last season, had won 16 of 17 and came into the game with the NBA's best record. Kobe Bryant is possibly having his best season and the Lakers look like they are going to make look easy in getting back to the NBA Finals.
Someone forget to tell the Cavaliers.
Behind Mo Williams and a stifling defense, the Cavaliers overcame a bit of a slow start to dominate the Lakers 102-87 for their 3rd win in a row. The Cavaliers won the final three games of the holiday road trip and improved to 23-8 on the season.
You likely read or hear that the Lakers were disinterested, that they didn't bring their 'A' game. You'll probably hear about the officials as well. Don't believe it, the Cavaliers earned everything they got and then some. It took Mike Brown just 3:22 to bring Zydrunas Ilgauskas into the game, playing along-side Shaquille O'Neal. An early-season disaster, the pairing was much more effective on both sides of the floor and the Laker had no answer.
Kobe Bryant, playing 45 minutes(including every minute of the first 3 quarter, did score 35 points, but the Cavaliers forced Bryant to take 32 shots to get it. Bryant was 12-12 from the Free Throw line, but was a -18 for the game. No other Laker had more than 13, and Ron Artest's 11 gave the Lakers just 3 players in double figures as Gasol, Artest and Lamar Odom combined to score just 30 points on 11-26 shooting.
A different story for the Cavaliers, who got a solid contribution from starters and bench-players alike. Mo Williams proved his All-Star worth by leading the Cavaliers with 28 points. Williams shot 8-13 from the field and 9-10 from the FT line. During a critical juncture in the 3rd Quarter, when the Lakers were still trying to win the game, it was Williams who seemed to make the plays, not LeBron.
Speaking of LeBron, it wasn't a typical LeBron James game - at least compared to his lofty standards. James did score 26 points on 9-19 shooting, but was 6-11 from the FT line and 2-7 from 3. James also committed 7 turnovers. Perhaps that is what pleases me the most about this game - the Cavaliers played against the defending World Champs and won easily without LeBron being, well, LeBron. At one point James even bounced an easy lob-dunk off the back of the rim. James wasn't the same after that moment, despite just missing a half-court shot at the end of the Half(replays showed it was barely on his fingertips when the buzzer sounded)
Thanks to the defense, he didn't have to be. The Lakers shot just 37%, 28% from 3. The Cavaliers, on the other hand, shot 54%, 39% from deep. If they could only hit a free throw or two(19/30 - 63%), the Cavs would have won the game even more easily.
Playing his best game in the past 3 or 4, Shaquille O'Neal took advantage of the Cavs size advantage for several easy dunks and rebounds. His 11 points and 7 rebounds was not indicative of the impact Shaq had on the game, especially on defense.
When it comes to the bench, the Cavaliers really dominated the Lakers, proving that many of the moves the Cavs made this summer are working out just fine. The Cavs' unit outscored the Lakers bench 31-17, though 6 of those points were scored in garbage time.
The game was marred by questionable officiating on both sides, much of which caused a deterioration of the action on the court. Derek Fisher, playing like the dirty player he is, shoved Mo Williams to the floor minutes after Kobe Bryant did the same to MoGatti. Lamar Odom was ejected in the 4th Quarter after receiving his 2nd Technical, and Laker fans, usually laid back, showed their displeasure by throwing foam-fingers onto the court.
Maybe they were just in the Christmas spirit.
It was a solid effort by the Cavaliers in a game where their best player wasn't playing his best. After losing to Boston opening night, Cleveland has come back with road wins over Orlando, Los Angeles and Phoenix. So far, so good with the Shaq experiment.
Next up for the Cavaliers is a visit from the Houston Rockets on Sunday.
GO CAVS!
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Merry Christmas, Cleveland
Quite possibly the best game the Cavs have played all year. They blew Lamar Odom and Ron Artest out of the building, frustrated Pau Gasol, flustered Derek Fischer, and reduced Kobe Bryant to a one-man team.
Speaking of Kobe, the stats will say he finished with more points than LeBron. But Kobe didn’t have a great night. Shaq and the Cavs hammered him all game long, and he had to fire over 30 shots to get 35 points. LeBron played way more effectively than he did.
Shaq brought the Cavs back early when they were down 8-2 with timely dunks. He also made life miserable for Andrew Bynum, Kobe and Gasol. I think this was a great demonstration that he was better than the naysayers predicted. Mo Williams shot the lights out of Staples Center. He was the best player on the floor.
But the real story was the bench. The Cavs had no answer for Jamario Moon or Anderson Varejao. Both guys were almost perfect in their shooting The Cavs bench outscored the Laker bench by 20. This was the greatest game they’ve played in a long time, and this was a terrific redemption game for Moon.
What a Christmas day. Celebrate, everyone!
by WaveOcean on Dec 25, 2009 9:31 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Wow, couldn’t have said it any better!
by emily522 on Dec 25, 2009 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you a Kings fan?
If you are, I must congratulate you on another great game against the Cavs. Once again we couldn’t stop you until OT. If not, I must be thinking of someone else.
by WaveOcean on Dec 26, 2009 12:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rockets…damn. They always play us tough.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 1:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Grats to the Cavs from a Blazers Fan
There are only two games each year in which you can count on me to root for LeBron and Varejao.
This was one of them.
Thanks and Merry Christmas. :)
Keep the faith.
by fajunga on Dec 26, 2009 2:17 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
See you in Portland
I have tickets to that game on January 10th.
by WaveOcean on Dec 26, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What's this, a Magic fan?
Oh dear. What on Earth happened yesterday with your team? How could you lose to the Pierce-less Celtics?
by WaveOcean on Dec 26, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One game???
Jeez Louise….the way these Cleveland fans get all worked up over winning ONE game…perhaps thats All they CAN win. Maybe thats why Champions must prove themselves over the course of SEVEN games. seven. 7. Siete. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7. *
by garagehero on Dec 26, 2009 2:52 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Jeez Louise….the way these Cleveland fans get all worked up over winning ONE game…perhaps thats All they CAN win. Maybe thats why Champions must prove themselves over the course of SEVEN games. seven. 7. Siete. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7. *
Gotta love this guy. He joins after the game, obviously butthurt about yesterday, then cut and pastes this gem over here from Silver Screen and Roll..
I see what you did there.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 1:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll give the guy credit for demonstrating the uncanny ability of “providing minimal effort”
by hans on Dec 26, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like a typical L@ker fan to me
Keep the faith.
by fajunga on Dec 27, 2009 1:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
@ garagehero...THAT'S RIGHT
One game …and if this had been the first game of a seven game series, The Cavs would now have home court advantage….The Lakers will get the respect their very existence makes you think they’re “entitled” to when they at least appear to respect their opponents…before or during a beatdown (see Kobe’s “nothing there” remarks and his and Fisher’s in-game actions) …As for your particular brand of Laker “fan”, you’ll get respect when you earn it by showing the slightest smidgen of basketball knowledge…These games DO mean something, otherwise they could just have an NCAA type playoff system starting in April
by cavslandrocks on Dec 27, 2009 9:30 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did the Cavs win the title today? Cavs
Regardless of the outcome of this game it doesn’t solve the Lebron vs Kobe debate. This isn’t even a debate because Lebron has a lot more to accomplish before he can even be mentioned. Cavs fans need to realize that this is made into a Kobe vs Lebron media hype topic. They have to meet in the Finals and play before it’s even a rivalry. Unforutanately, Lebron has to lead his team there first and not get swept. I can’t even entertain the idea of debating this with a Cavs fan because in my opinion he doesn’t deserve the mention in that debate. Better yet, he hasn’t earned it. Yes the Cavs won this game but the following quote just solves one thing, the Cavs played and were better TODAY!
Laker and Kobe fans always say one reason kobe is the better player is because Lebron doesnt have a killer instinct and doesnt attack himself and passes too much at crucial times. Well Kobe’s killer instinct got him 21 missed shots
Lakers fans don’t "think" that Kobe is better we know it. It doesn’t have to do with killer instinct. it has to do with Kobe’s better refined game, as compared to Lebron’s one dimensional attack the basket game. It has to do with Lebron’s not being able to improve his jump shot and relying more on his athleticism. He might be better in the media’s eyes but they don’t get on the court and play the game. That is decided on the court and in that aspect Lebron still has a long way to go because one game doesn’t decide that. For now you have bragging rights but that is all you have.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 2:55 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Really? You “know” Kobe is better? Well, this guy doesn’t agree with you.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly what I'm talking about. You rely on the media to make you feel secure that Lebron is better
C’mon man! Do you have some thoughts of your own on how Lebron is better or are you going to go off of someone else’s point of view?
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Brad doesn’t really care to give his thoughts on a stupid subjective debate anyways. Unless of course you want to consider objective data, but then, who would want to do that?
by hans on Dec 26, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You rely on the media to make you feel secure that Lebron is better
I tend to rely more on, say…watching them play basketball to feel secure about that.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
unfortunately
you don’t represent all Cavs fans because you are just one fan but most Cavs don’t. Just look at Buckeye Brads’ post above. He is telling me that Lebron is better but puts a Link of some sports columnist. You see, not everyone sees things like you do.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve discussed this many times with you and other Lakers fans who come here to bash LeBron. I don’t feel the need to go through it again. You obviously won’t let stats or other facts change your opinion, you’re going to think whatever you want to think. I’m not going to bother having the same argument over and over again.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but most Cavs don’t
Care to back this up with some objective data?
by hans on Dec 26, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry dude.
But LeBron is gonna destroy Kobe’s records by the end of his career.
Keep the faith.
by fajunga on Dec 27, 2009 1:35 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t “rely on the media to make me feel secure that LeBron is better.” That is exactly the kind of language that I’m talking about. You don’t want to discuss basketball, you just want to pick fights and put down people here.
I’ve given you my point of view many times about LeBron. As I’ve mentioned before, we’ve had this argument already and I don’t want to go through it again. That’s why I linked to that article so we could get an impartial view of the debate, not one from a Lakers fan or a Cavs fan. That guy is an analyst for Scouts, Inc. so I think he know a bit about basketball.
All the stats point to LeBron being better than Kobe. He is the more complete player; he does more things for his team and he makes his teammates better more than Kobe does. The only argument for Kobe — which Lakers fans constantly use — is that he has won more championships, but that’s a team accomplishment, not an individual one, so you can’t use that to judge individual players. Plus, Kobe got to play with one of the most dominant centers of all time as a young player which is the reason he won so many titles. LeBron has not has never played with a teammates of that caliber, not even close, so that’s not a fair comparison. And you know all this. So I don’t want to go through all this again when we’ve done this many times in the past.
If you disagree with anything in that article please let me know and we can discuss it. If not, then you have to admit that LeBron is the better player than Kobe right now. Or you can just continue to attack me by telling me that I “need to feel secure” or some bullcrap like that.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously I will NEVER agree that Lebron is better than Kobe and I'll tell you why
Stats only show a minor part. They really are. But the rest of your coments are just your opinion and not facts:
He is the more complete player
No he isn’t. Kobe is a better shooter and he has a better mid range game. You can bring up stats to prove this all you want but the majority of Lebron’s point are scored in the paint. That gives a false impression because of course his FG% will be better. He is better than Kobe at getting to the basket. But Kobe’s shooting is a lot better than Lebron. Simply by two things that stats don’t show. Kobe’s midrange game is far superior than James’ and in if you need a shot to win the game you will always choose Kobe over Lebron. Even you have to admit that.
he does more things for his team
How? Again, that is just your opinion with no facts. Kobe runs a complex offense like the triangle. He is restricted to run it and get his shots off of it. The Cavs don’t run a complex offense. By your own coach’s admition, he just gives the ball to Lebron and tells everyone to get out of the way. That is another reason why Lebron has more assists. The offense is designed that way.
Also, since you brought up Shaq. If you can’t count it in Kobe’s favor that he had Shaq then you cant count it against him. What Kobe did in so many 4th qtrs against Sacrament, Spurs, Portland and Indiana is just phenomenal. I’m sorry but if Lebron was forced to rely on his shooting during those moments that Kobe had to when Shaq was in foul trouble he couldn’t do it. Lebron’s shooting has improved but he has never improved in the short span that Kobe did. And this is regardless of whether Shaq was on his team or not. Kobe has been the hardest worker in the NBA since MJ and yes even more than Lebron.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 9:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He is the more complete playerNo he isn’t. Kobe is a better shooter and he has a better mid range game. You can bring up stats to prove this all you want but the majority of Lebron’s point are scored in the paint. That gives a false impression because of course his FG% will be better. He is better than Kobe at getting to the basket. But Kobe’s shooting is a lot better than Lebron. Simply by two things that stats don’t show. Kobe’s midrange game is far superior than James’ and in if you need a shot to win the game you will always choose Kobe over Lebron. Even you have to admit that.
You didn’t say a single thing which contradicted my statement. I said LeBron was a more complete player, not a more complete shooter or scorer. Everything you wrote was about shooting.
As for the second part, did you read that link above? This is from an NBA scout:
Category No. 3: Making teammates better
This might be the easiest category in which to see a clear separation between the two. LeBron is, simply put, the best passing guard/wing since Magic Johnson. He’s terrific with the active dribble in isolation or off ball screens, and he’s even better before he uses his dribble, reading and reacting to shifts by the defense in preparation for his drives. This creates easy buckets for guys who normally would have a tough time scoring. Most importantly, he’ll make the key pass at any part of the game, including end-of-game scenarios.
Kobe is an amazing passer, too. He has great anticipation in the halfcourt. My favorite play of his is when he dribble-drives or posts up to draw the opponent’s center or power forward to take just a step or two toward him. When that happens, the Lakers big who becomes open, typically Andrew Bynum or Pau Gasol, runs straight to the rim to catch the perfect lob pass from Kobe. It’s a devastating play, one that keeps the defending bigs in constant purgatory.
The one fair knock on Kobe is his desire to keep the ball instead of moving it. That he has such great talent around him only exacerbates the problem. He’s still a great passer, but he’s not on LeBron’s level.
LeBron 10, Kobe 8
That’s from an unbiased source, so excuse me if I believe him more than a Lakers fan.
See, this is why I didn’t want to start this again. I’m tired of having the same argument over and over again. Lakers fans won’t believe anyone else who thinks LeBron might be better than Kobe. I can admit that Kobe is a better overall scorer, but LeBron is superior at making his teammates better. He’s been that way since he was in high school and when he was a rookie in the NBA. But Kobe fans can’t admit that. This is a pointless endevour.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 9:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
laker fans
i live in LA amongst the throngs of Laker fans and I can only say one thing: Laker fans are some of the best in sports. They are knowledgeable, passionate, and dedicated. As a Cavs fan, I respect them LEAPS AND BOUNDS more than Boston fans. HOWEVER, I don’t know one Laker fan that thinks Kobe is better than Lebron. Almost all of my friends, and everyone else I know, admits that Lebron passed Kobe sometime last year. So, , sorry purple and gold. that you’re wrong about. ,
by bradley4toz on Dec 27, 2009 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I love the Lakers fan that troll in and make blanket statements like “Lebron’s one dimensional attack the basket game”. Disregard the fact that he is a vastly superior passer than Kobe (Kobe is no slouch but he’s not even in the same league). And don’t run around saying things like Lebron is unable to improve his jumper. It is well chronicled that he has improved year to year and it may even SURPRISE a Lakers fan to know that Lebron is actually a much better jump shooter, at least this season, than Kobe. Kobe shoots an underwhelming 28% on 3 pts to Lebron’s 36% (and Lebron has attempted nearly 70 more 3’s). Just a few little tid bits…other wise merry xmas and happy holidays everyone (both cavs and lakers fans)
by jeffbp on Dec 26, 2009 3:45 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Then take a walk over to SSR and see how many Cavs fans are trolling
As far as passing yes he is better “superior” no he isn’t. OMG! here wih go with the stats. I don’t care about stats just like I don’t care about how the refs called the game today. That is meaningless. The real stat that is most important in this game is titles. But since you brought up stats and passing let me ask you this. Would you say that Stockton having more assists than Magic matters to him more than the 5 rings that Magic has as a player? The stats argument is only for those who it benefits like Cavs fans and the media. Although it might not be you who is acting like the Cavs just won the title and that Lebron is better than Kobe that is the message on this site by Cavs fans. Merry Xmas to you to.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 4:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
At this time, I one 1 Cav fan
and they are being quite respectful
So I told her," I'll be nicer if you try to be smarter!'..That was a mistake.
by Juannieboy on Dec 26, 2009 9:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry ..I count one Cavs fan
So I told her," I'll be nicer if you try to be smarter!'..That was a mistake.
by Juannieboy on Dec 26, 2009 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So am I
what disrespectful thing have I said?
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 11:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
Just the fact that you’re continually debating this really kind of shows that Kobe has failed in thhat regard, no?
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
HUh?
failed in what?
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
…distancing himself from his contemporaries.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 2:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't usually
respond to trolls but this guy is taking it to a new level. So there are some immature Cavs fans trolling on your precious little blog, do two wrongs make a right? Great show of maturity, sir. I bestow upon you a golf clap. How can you have a debate when you care not for the evidence? The proof is in the pudding. Maybe that is why you do not care for stats? As for your analogy there, including the “ring argument” you Kobe/Laker fans wag in front of Cavs fans’ faces, you seem to need glasses, because there is not only one guy on a team but five. My point being that this is a team game as opposed to tennis, an individual sport. Kobe is fortunate enough to have been surrounded with top caliber players almost entirely throughout his career, LBJ on the other hand cannot say the same thing. However, I ask you this: Put the 22/23 year old Kobe in 2007 with the same scrub team LeBron led to the finals, would he be able to do the same? No! Their passing skills at that point in their careers is incomparable, let alone the maturity! Also Robert Horry and Steve Kerr have more rings at this point, but I cannot say those two gentlemen are better than Kobe, no?
Personally, I find joy that the Cavaliers beat your team on your home turf because your team are the top dogs with the target on their back. They rarely show that vulnerable target, but the Cavs found it, and they hit it hard. The media has also left the Cavs for dead in the championship race, but this is where the Cavs dealt those wisecrack analysts a sucker punch, saying loud and proud that they are still here and they never left. And partly because so many of you fans are so smug.
So be on your way please. And keep your precious little purple and gold. I saw the same color scheme on a dead hooker’s thong. And with all those yeast infections hookers go through in their lifetimes, I’m sure it stinks just as much as those purple and gold uniforms. Actually scratch that. I apologize. I respect the Laker organization and/or personnel. From The Logo to The Big Dipper to Big Game James, etc. It’s just douchebag fans like yourself that unfairly deface and devalue such a respectable organization with such a rich history of success.
Canadian Cavalier (or bandwagon fan if you purists must insist)
by Lex L. on Dec 26, 2009 5:53 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'm assuming you are replying to me
Lex L.
It’s not the stats that I hate but those who use them wrong. While stats cannot be ignored that is the ONLY aspect of the game that Cavs fan rely on. Also that argument that Kobe had better quality players is played out. It can’t be denied how great he was on those teams. Besides, If Lebron doesn’t have better teammates who’s fault is that. Is it the Lakers organization at fault for willing to pay that money?
lol…that was hilarious, “same color scheme on a dead hooker’s thong”. No lie that was funny. But I have to say something about your comments. All I talked about was basketball. A cavs fan earlier said that the Cavs fans over at SSR were being respectful yet I come here and I have to read the following:
you fans are so smug.
It’s just douchebag fans like yourself
Tell which of my comments were as disrespectful or as personal as these?
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 12:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Start from scratch?
Perhaps I was a bit too abrasive, sir, so I shall explain my words. My apologies.
Your comments are just a small piece of the pie. The fact that you felt obliged to “defend your team” by coming to this forum is the problem itself. I am not sure if you watched the Lion King as a child, but we seem to be forgetting the principle of Hakuna Matata; can’t we all just get along?
A win is a win is a win, as they say. Pay close attention please as these are my own sentiments. When the final buzzer sounded, I was ecstatic of course, but soon after, I went back to enjoying Christmas with my family. No delusions of grandeur, no tenuous debate on whether Kobe or Lebron is better. Now, I ask you, what drew your ire so much that you had to march down here, proclaiming that this is not the be all, end all answer to a “much hyped debate”? Is it because of some immature Cavs fans? You did not pay attention to the rhetorical question that was part of my previous reply: Do two wrongs make a right? I am not judging you at all, but, have you ever tried taking the high road?
If you are a self-respecting adult, please tell me the misguided comments of a few immature bloggers getting under your skin is just plain silly. So what? You don’t have to stoop down to their level.
But even before all this, I think we are all forgetting one thing: We are living in free nations, not communist China or North Korea. What I am trying to say is, we are all entitled to our own opinions! I know several Laker fans in my neck of the woods getting teed off because Lebron is getting a lot of attention from the media when “he has not achieved anything (rings).” What the hell is up with that? Does the media need to unanimously agree that Kobe is top dog, focus all cameras and mics on him for you to be happy? Go change the constitution then! Make it illegal to even mention LBJ’s name in the same sentence as Kobe. Fact is, we live in the free side of the world, so deal with the split decision.
Peace be with you, sir.
Canadian Cavalier (or bandwagon fan if you purists must insist)
by Lex L. on Dec 27, 2009 3:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was waiting for the Lakers fans to show up and tell us all that this game didn’t really matter and that Kobe is still much better than LeBron. Same as usual. Of course, if the Lakers had won then they’d be saying that this proves that the Cavs can’t beat great teams, but since they lost then the game doesn’t mean anything.
I really don’t know why they can’t stay on their own site and talk about the Lakers there. Why do they feel the need to come here and tell everyone that they think – I’m sorry, they know - that Kobe is better than LeBron. It must be because nobody else agrees with them so they’re trying to convince themselves that it’s true.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 8:23 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
When Cavs fans come over to SSR after they won
and why is it so difficult to expect that I’m here to defend my team? I’m not being rude and disrespectful as the replies I have received. I have been on this site before and have joined in conversations so I’m not trolling. But if Cavs fans are welcomed on SSR after a loss why am I not welcomed here? As I said earlier, I’m talking only about basketball and not worried about personal insults.
Speaking for myself, I do think that the Lakers are a better team and this game had nothing to do with it. Win or loose. They are still the better team. They are the defending Champs and until they loose that will remain a fact. This game is only important in terms of home court advantage in case the two teams meet in the Finals. But that’s it.
The reason we can’t stay on our own site is because SB Nation was created for the purpose of us being able to discuss these things. This is isn’t sbnationforcavsfansonly.com is it? We are allowed to come here just as much as your fans are allowed to come over to SSR. Besides, Buckey Brad, I have seen you over there plenty of times and you have been welcomed so why this attitude?
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Where have you seen me? I have never, ever been to the Lakers’ SBN site. I don’t even know what it’s called.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
oh c'mon
are you serious?
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. You can click on my name to see my history — I’ve never posted there. I’ve never even been on your site.
I don’t know if you have me confused with someone else or if you’re just making things up.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
defenitely not making things up
that is not my style. Hey but if you said you haven’t then you haven’t. But I think you might of forgot but it’s not important. I take your word for it.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m 100% sure I’ve never been there. I’ve never visited the SBN site of any other NBA team besides the Cavs, in fact.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
okay.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I don’t mind you coming over for friendly talk, but you and other Lakers fans come all the time just to bash LeBron and the Cavs and remind us all why you think Kobe is better. It gets old after a while.
Just because some Cavs fans talk trash and act like idiots on your site doesn’t give you the right to do the same. You sound like a 6-year-old saying “but he hit me first” after your mom yells at you for hitting somebody.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It is friendly talk
but just because we don’t agree it seems or comes off as unfriendly. We just have a difference of opinion. As I said before, you have Cavs fans coming over to SSR to gloat after the Cavs beat the Lakers so I am here defending my team. No I will never agree that Lebron is better than Kobe but i can give him credit. You might be surprised but I don’t hate Lebron or the Cavs one bit.
I think Lebron is the most athletic player this leage has ever seen besides Shaq. Lebron will no doubt be a hall of famer and after Kobe is gone he will be the lone superstar of the league. I do think that Wade is up there to. But my only gripe with this whole Lebron vs Kobe thing is ridiculous. I will never claim Kobe is better than MJ because Kobe has a lot to do before he can be spoken in the same sentence. But he is close. But for that same reason, you can’t compare Lebron to Kobe. Just because that is my stance doesn’t mean I hate Lebron or bash him. I just don’t think he is better and it is that point of view that upsets all of you. If you look at my comments I haven’t taken this personal or made any insulting comments.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 3:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, the whole Kobe v. LeBron thing is just media hype. It’s a way to promote the league, but they really don’t have much of a personal rivalry and their teams don’t really have a rivalry either. Maybe if they meet in the Finals this year they will develop one, but not now. But when you have two supremely talent players like LeBron and Kobe, who are clearly the two best players in the NBA, fans and media are going to debate which one is better.
I know you’re not insulting anyone, but when you come here after the Cavs beat the Lakers and say that this game doesn’t mean anything and that all Lakers fans “know” that Kobe is still better than LeBron then it seems as thought you’re just trying to start a fight. We’ve had this disucssion many times with Lakers fans here, you and many others. I know you think Kobe is better, and you know we think LeBron is better, so why even bother having this argument? What’s that going to solve? None of us are going to change each other’s minds, so what’s the point of doing this over and over again?
I have no problem with you coming here to talk basketball, but please don’t always make it about LeBron v. Kobe. Let’s talk about the game yesterday, and what the Cavs did well and what the Lakers didn’t do well. Let’s talk about what this means for their rematch in Cleveland and how it affects both teams going forward. Heck, we can even argue about who’s the better team right now and what might happen if they meet in the Finals. But let’s not turn this in to another LeBron v. Kobe argument that’s not going to go anywhere.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
Keep in mind though when the Cavs beat the Lakers it was fan(s) from this site that came over to talk and gloat. It was not just a competitive debate but there was a lot of trash talking. When that occurs I feel compelled to him here and defend my team. Regardless of whether or not it was you that is what instigated this whole thing. I wish Cavs fans would follow your advice and just had come over to SSR and discuss the game rather to make it into this whole “rub it in the Lakers” face attitude. Had that not of happened I would have stayed on my end.
Even though your team won and I come here to do the same that Cavs fans went over to SSR to do it proves the point of how annoying that is. Imagine if the Lakers had won and I had come here to gloat how much worst that would have been if the shoe were on the other foot? But it’s done. I just wanted to prove how annoying that is.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to tell you this, but after the game, I only saw one Cav poster from this site, WaveOcean, discussing the game, and your own brethren told you (or another Laker poster) to leave him alone because he was accused of being a troll, which he isn’t.
If you had others show up after the fact, my guess is that they aren’t regular Cavs fans from here, but rather SBN trolls, who like to sign up for new accounts, just to stir up the pot. We get plenty of “Magic” and “Celtic” trolls who show up just to post garbage. Usually we ignore them. If you don’t feed them, they go on their merry way.
by talonk on Dec 27, 2009 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I would say their talent disparity is so slight it’s almost negligible. The only reason I would take Lebron is his strength and power.
Keep in mind…as you are no doubt aware with Kobe. Fans across the NBA dislike lebron …I have no issue at all with Kobe. I dislike Garnett more than anyone I suppose, and even if he signed with the Cavs, I still wouldn’t care for his cheap shots and mugging.
1. Because it’s impossible to deny he is a once in a lifetime talent. I guarantee every and all those NBA fans bashing him, calling him cocky, a punk, etc. would piss down their legs and rapidly change their tune if he decided to sign with their team. So, it’s disingenuous.
2. The media’s fascination with superstars, and the resultant tendency to throw him in your face over, and over…gushing about him, all the commercials (especially that horrendously annoying puppet). Of course there’s gonna be a backlash.
3. I admit some of his behavior has rubbed me the wrong way: handshakegate, the dancing, how he handled the impending free agency issue to a certain extent. (I’m glad he’s chosen to stop talking about it). I have no issue with the powder at all, even if some think it’s getting a little old. These things though, are small issues at best. Really knitpicking at it’s finest because his talent on the court, his unselfish play, his leadership and maturity…are all undeniable and above criticism. I would assert these might be a little more important than him dancing a jig on the sidelines.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 4:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
I can’t believe you feel the same about KG as I do. Even if the Lakers signed him he would be the only player in my history of being a fan that I would have disliked a Laker. I can’t stand him.
1. Believe it or not, if the Lakers right now, had a chance to sign Lebron as a free agent or extend Kobe I would choose lebron. Also your comment about people talking trash about Lebron and you know that those same fans would embrace him if he was on their team, that is the same with Kobe.
2. That is my main point. The media is throwing him in there and his talent deserves the attention but he still needs to accomplish a lot.
3. You take the good with the bad as I have about Kobe. As long as they are wearing the teams’ colors you have to stand by him as I do with Kobe. But I still hold my stance because he asked to be traded to the Bulls so i’m still wary of him being a lifetime Lakers.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sbnationforcavsfansonly.com
…at least it’s not CelticsBlog…the North Korea of SB Nation.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
something we agree on..
that is the worst site ever. Celticsblog that is.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My time there went something like this….
“Hey all…Cavs fan here. Just wanted to sa—-” BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED BANNED
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's me. I'm guilty of going over to SSR.
For my part, I like seeing people show up here from enemy blogs. I don’t want to feel like I’m the only one doing it.
by WaveOcean on Dec 26, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kobe is a great player but I’ll take LeBron on my team every time. I don’t think you will see LeBron purposely try to take out an opposing player by running him over while his back is turned like Kobe did to Mo. Try a little class there Mr. Bryant!
Love to hear the LA fans shouting “MVP, MVP” with Kobe at the line, his team down by double digits! Absolutley, priceless!
So I told her," I'll be nicer if you try to be smarter!'..That was a mistake.
by Juannieboy on Dec 26, 2009 8:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
And don’t forget them throwing the foam fingers on the court. You stay classy, LA!
"Nobody ever thinks, 'Hey, maybe I’m actually an idiot.'" - Jay
by woodsmeister on Dec 26, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of class
don’t forget Lebron walking off the court and not shaking hands.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
P and G, your team is the defending champs.
They’ve dominated the first quarter of this season.
They have one of the top handful of players of all time and a great supporting cast.
But your team didn’t show up yesterday against a Top 5 NBA and got whupped, which is exactly what happens to any team that doesn’t show up to play against a Top 5 team.
Your coach is doing exactly what he does well and what makes him great, which is whining and playing the referees in the media because the Cavs had three more fouls calls against them than the Lakers.
You showed up on that other team’s site to start … not sure what.
You’ve put yourself in a corner where you’re defending idiots who throw stuff onto the floor at a professional sporting event because you’re just not thinking and you’re just reacting.
You, in short, are acting like a idiot 14 year old. It’s one game. Clearly no need to start acting like a petulant brat. Go back to whatever bridge you crawled out from under and hope that your team plays better in late January in Cleveland.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Dec 26, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Yes, Yes on most of your points. I agree with you. Personally, I don’t blame the refs one bit. The better team won last night no doubt about it. I think Phil’s comments about the refs is something he has always known to do. But it is the Lakers’ lack of effort that lost them the game not the refs. That excuse is a cop-out in eyes.
Not trying to start anything. Cavs fans showed up on SSR whether it was one or two it doesn’t matter. They showed up there as they are allowed to. But my response was to come here and say one thing, “it was just one game and you have braggin rights but that doesn’t mean that Lebron is better than Kobe and that the cavs are the better team” that was and is my point. Again with the insults. I refuse to be baited into that. Way to show class sir. Yet you call me a 14 year old and you say the following:
You, in short, are acting like a idiot 14 year old. It’s one game. Clearly no need to start acting like a petulant brat. Go back to whatever bridge you crawled out from under and hope that your team plays better in late January in Cleveland
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How could we? It’s brought up every day at some point.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, THAT is old
especially since Kobe did it against Phoenix in that first round playoff exit when the Suns came back from a 3-1 deficit….let’s juat leave the media hyped sideshow stuff out of it and talk about ON COURT stuff
by cavslandrocks on Dec 26, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because
he’s the Finals MVP that’s why they chant it.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 12:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Mo Williams.
Not the Mo Williams I saw Last year in East Finals,
Oh wait. This is not the playoffs.
I see…
"Memphis then used a pick-and-roll to get Conley free and he drove past Shaquille O'Neal for the go-ahead layup."
by BS Patrol on Dec 26, 2009 9:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not the Mo Williams I saw Last year in East Finals,
Oh wait. This is not the playoffs.
I see…
…good thing it’s not if you’re a Lakers or Magic fan.
by johnnyphoenix on Dec 26, 2009 1:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, because you don’t judge any player in any sport based on a few games. You look at the stats over a full season to see the true judge of a player’s talent. Anybody who makes a judgement of a player based on a few playoff games doesn’t know anything about sports.
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 26, 2009 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
An Orlando Magic fan?!
Oh dear. What happened yesterday? How could you lose to the Pierce-less Celtics?
by WaveOcean on Dec 26, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was waiting for this to happen
Finally we got comments from rival fans.
Hello, Purple and Gold for Life. I haven’t read comments from you since the 2009 Finals. You were quite pleased with the Cavs being eliminated in the ECF, and you probably agreed with SSR that Shaq was going to be counterproductive. I can’t imagine how furious you must be right now.
by WaveOcean on Dec 26, 2009 4:45 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm mad
at The Lakers for letting Shaq over power them. I’m mad at the Lakers for not giving enough effort. Honestly, I was pleased that the Cavs got eliminated because I want this to be a rivalry. I want Lebron and Kobe to face off in the Finals. Personally, I want the Lakers to face the Celtics so that they can get revenge for that horrible loss. But if not the Celtics then yes I guess I would like to see them face the Cavs.
"Michael Jordan once said the quality Bryant possessed that reminded him most of himself was the desire to distance himself from contemporaries."
by PURPLE AND GOLD FOR LIFE on Dec 26, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about the kings?
If they were hosting Boston next they’d be like this year’s knicks, except way tougher. Looks like you can rest easy knowing your team isn’t yet repeating the slide of the 08-09 celtics after their christmas day defeat.
by WaveOcean on Dec 27, 2009 12:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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