Where the Cavs can stand historically
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 23, 2009 5:37 AM CDT
28 comments
As we get into the final dozen games of the NBA Season, the Cavs who started the season on a record breaking pace find themselves still within reach of pretty prestigious company.
First, let's breakdown the schedule:
Home Games:
- New Jersey
- Minnesota
- Dallas
- Detroit
- San Antonio
- Washington
- Boston
- Philadelphia
Road Games:
- Washington
- Orlando
- Philadelphia
- Indiana
Not easy, not in the least. We've got playoff teams in Dallas, Detroit, San Antonio, Boston, Philadelphia, Orlando and fierce rivals in Washington (who have both beat the Cavs and sans a majestic meltdown would have blemished the home record)
HOME
Well, the NBA record for Home record is 40-1, held by the 1985-86 Boston Celtics. Should the Cavs manage to get past New Jersey, Detroit, Minnesota, San Antonio, Dallas and Washington at home, the Celts come into The Q with one final chance to defend that record.
Most Wins
With a current record of 57-13, the best loss total they can hope for is said 13 losses. Not losing another game and finishing the season on a 21 game winning streak, the Cavs would tie for 2nd place all-time with the 1971-72 Los Angeles Lakers and the 1996-1997 Chicago Bulls. I need not tell you how remarkable those teams were.
In fact, no team that has lost less than 14 games has not won the NBA Championship.
.817
Currently, your Cleveland Cavaliers carry an .814 winning percentage. With a victory at the Q on Wednesday vs New Jersey, they would reach the .817 level. That winning percentage, if maintained would preserve a 67 win season.
Only 9 teams in NBA history have won 67 games. 7 of those 9 teams won the NBA Finals. The other two were the '72-73 Celtics (who lost in the ECF) and the '06-'07 Mavs who epically got bounced by the upstart Golden State Warriors.
21 Straight
And finally, the improbable 21 games straight. Now on a 9 game winning streak, winning out would give us 21 straight wins (regular season). That would be one less than Houston's great run of last season and 12 short of Milwaukee's all-time record.
Just something for you to chew on. I've only ever seen another team in my life as great as this Cavs team (95-96 Bulls). The ultimate goal of this team is the NBA Championship, securing the legacies of Big Z and Lebron in Cavs history but I can't help but root for these smaller team goals as well.
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I’ve only ever seen another team in my life as great as this Cavs team (95-96 Bulls).
c’mon, dude. get serious. this team isn’t even the consensus best team of THIS YEAR, much less the best team in the NBA in 15 years.
i’m as psyched about this squad as anyone, but let’s hold off on the ridiculous homerish predictions and comparisons. this is the best cavs team ever, w/o question, but we’ve gotta make a dent in the playoffs before we start with the other superlatives.
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 23, 2009 5:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You're right
when things like statistics and facts compare them to said Bulls team, it is completely homerish to make such comparisons.
Darn reality, darn it to heck. Always trying to fluff up the Cavs.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 23, 2009 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, even your fabricated statistics and “facts” (i really hesitate to call them that, but i’m trying to quote you) don’t make them a clear contender to that bulls team. extending this 9 game win streak to 21 ties them for the 2nd best record of all time. winning on wednesday puts them at .817 win %, and if they continue to win at that rate for the balance of the season puts them in the company of whopping 9 other NBA teams. we have 8 home games left, including against 2 of the top 4 teams in the NBA (SA and BOS), which makes the question of tying BOS for that home record very much an open one.
but, to dig into the actual statistics and facts, which you clearly haven’t done:
- ppg – 95-96 bulls: 105.2; 08-09 cavs: 199.2
- opp. ppg – 95-96 bulls: 92.9; 08-09 cavs: 91.3
- point differential – 95-96 bulls: 12.3; 08-09 cavs: 8.9
- SRS ranking – 95-96 bulls: 11.80 (1st in NBA); 08-09 cavs: 8.63 (1st in NBA)
- Offensive Rating – 95-96 bulls: 115.2 (1st in NBA); 08-09 cavs: 112.1 (4th in NBA)
- Defensive Rating – 95-96 bulls: 101.8 (1st in NBA); 08-09 cavs: 102.2 (3rd in NBA)
this cavs team is great. there is no doubt about it, but to compare them to arguably the best single team in NBA history is the height of delusion. especially when you consider that one team, the lakers, beat the cavs each time they played…and beat them hard and bad.
my point is just, let’s don’t get in over our skis with this team. it’s unfair to them, quite frankly, to make these types of comparisons.
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 23, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*08-09 cavs ppg should say 100.2
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 23, 2009 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are missing the point
it is not to claim they are the best team ever it is only to point out how close they are. Even your stat bear that out. If you are a Bulls fan you should leave right now before you become banned. And if you are a Cavs fan shame on you for brow beating a Real Cavs fan. If the Cavs win the title I will be happy with the fact they will be considered one of the top ten teams of all time and finally a Cleveland team would become a world champion.
Go Cavs.
Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
by E5 on Mar 23, 2009 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, bro, you are the one missing the point. this is undoubtedly the best cavs team of all time. let’s enjoy and celebrate that, as opposed to imposing these ridiculous comparisons upon them. let this be the premiere team in franchise history, and if they happen to win more than 65 games, and happen to make serious noise in the playoffs, then let’s discuss a place at the “all-time” table.
but engaging in this “if X, Y and Z happen over the last 12 games, then we have a chance to possibly be mentioned in A, B or C category” nonsense is pointless and ridiculous. what if all that stuff doesn’t happen? then what? this week we were in position to be one of the best ever, and if we “only” win 64 games, suddenly someone failed? mike brown and ferry are twerps?
it doesn’t make you a real cavs fan to diarrhea this “our team is the greatest ever” stuff. that’s just an assault on common sense and rationality and deserves to be called out. i’m beyond happy about how the cavs are doing, i hope it continues, and that’s that. for now, i don’t care where they rank in history, and they won’t rank in history until the conclusion of the playoffs.
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 23, 2009 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious? He’s not a “real” Cavs fan for saying that it’s too early to rank this team as an all-time great? Being objective about your team doesn’t make you less of a fan. Besides, Joey wasn’t saying that the Cavs weren’t an all-time great team, just that we should wait for the season to end before making such statements.
Also, if he was a Bulls fan, he has every right to disagree with this post and tell his thoughts. That’s no reason to ban someone. Don’t be ridiculous.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 24, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like you posted statistics to back my statement
and then did a 180 in your editorial.
I never said they WERE the Chicago Bulls. I said they’ve played like the best team I’ve seen since then. And they have a chance to cement that in the regular season.
Another statistic that bodes out for them:
95-96 Bulls
Home PPG: 107.1
Home PAPG: 90.0
Difference: 17.1
08-09 Cavs
Home PPG: 102.8
Home PAPG: 88.9
Difference: 13.9
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 24, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your assessment of the stats i posted is actually completely incorrect. what you’re clearly missing here is that a 3.2 ppg differential (in your lame example of home PPG above) means that the bulls’ home average in 95-96 was 23% better than the cavs’ record is currently. that’s A TON. it’s not enough to just look at these numbers in a vacuum…23% is the difference b/w 50 wins and 61 wins. that’s the difference b/w w pretty good year, and a great year.
the hard numbers don’t bear out that this team is in the conversation with the bulls so far, and it’s WAY early to discuss that until the playoffs conclude. that’s the crux of my argument. not to mention, from a qualitative perspective…were you paying attention to the lakers’ 3-peat at the beginning of this decade??
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 24, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joey
The season is not over.
The Cavs are 2nd all-time in home point differential, ahead of the 1985-86 Boston Celtics (at 13.0).
How is that a lame stat?
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 24, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am aware that the season is not over. that’s actually almost my entire point.
the stat you quote is lame b/c…what the heck does it tell us? how is that significant? the cavs play well at home. terrific.
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 24, 2009 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It tells us that sans one other team in history
the Cavs play well at home. Either record wise (Celtcis) or Point Differential (Chicago Bulls).
And that is terrific. Thanks.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 24, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the fact that the cavs are great at home, in and of itself, tells us absolutely nothing. we’d rather have homecourt in the playoffs…well, we knew that.
is that scoring differential the result of beating 4 teams by 50? is it due to blowing out all of the sub-.500 teams we played at home, and squeaking by the good teams? are we 31-1 b/c of consistent defensive effort? or have we gotten lucky? on its face, the statement that we’re great at home doesn’t help us evaluate the team. you have to actually attempt to do a little bit of thinking about it.
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 24, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly have no idea
what you are even railing against anymore.
I feel like I’m talking to Joe Morgan.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 24, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m not sure i can be accused of railing against much. what i’m trying to do is defend common sense and reason against your ridiculous assaults.
it’s funny you bring up joe morgan, as it is actually you who is playing joe’s role in this conversation. i’d like you to look deeper at the stats—to try to assess what a stat actually means and if it’s relevant. you’re sticking with the “i believe what i see” route, which is joe m.’s hallmark.
look, i didn’t know that all teams w/ less than 14 losses won rings…that’s interesting, though it’s humongously unlikely that the cavs will come in under 14 losses. that .817 winning % stat is interesting, too. but tying a home wins record means nothing. winning 21 games in a row is massively unlikely and means nothing. comparing to the bulls of the mid-90s is pointless.
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 24, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defend common sense?
You are the one that has been attacking since your first response to this post.
Your first response made it seem like you hadn’t even ready what I typed. You told me to not make ‘homerish’ predictions, when I never made a single prediction. I said that these were All-Time standings the Cavs could reach with a anywhere from status-quo finishes to hot finishes.
As you said in THIS post, you did not know some of these things. Instead of being informed by what high company they could find themselves in, you told me to get serious.
It is you that are the one that sounds like Joe Morgan. His hallmark is saying ‘statistics don’t mean much of anything to me’ and discounting numbers because they don’t fit his world view.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 24, 2009 10:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 96-96 Bulls lost to the Indiana Pacers
twice in said season.
Again, this isn’t an attempt to say the Cavs are the greatest single season team of all-time but rather to point out goals they can still achieve in the regular season.
Keep in mind, this Cavs team started the season 1-2. Since then, they’ve gone 56-11.
They have 12 regular season games left to find out where they can end up all-time. If by some miracle they finished with 69 wins, they would have a chance to win a title and finish with 85 wins this campaign. That would give them the second highest win total all-time, thanks to David Sterns new 1st round system.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 24, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, the bulls lost to the pacers twice, but they also beat them twice. the cavs are and will be 0-2 against the lakers this year. i realize anything can happen on a given night over 82 games—injuries, etc.—but how can you be the best team of the last 15 years if it’s not even clear that you’re the best team THIS year?
you point out potential outcomes for the cavs this year. that’s fine. just know that pretty much 0 of them are likely to come true (winning out for the balance of the year, tying the c’s at 40-1 at home, even winning 67+ games), and please don’t be upset when they don’t. that’s where i took umbrage…to put it on this team that they could, if everything dropped right, be in the conversation for one of the second best teams in NBA history is just silly. i don’t want a 65 win year to be viewed as anything other than a wild success, and i feel like putting them in the bulls’ category sets up a scenario wherein 65 wins could be viewed as disappointing.
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 24, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Joey
You took umbrage with pointing out potential goals this team could reach as the season continues?
This must be something unique to Ohio Sports fans, not to ever examine positive potential outcomes but cling to what has already happened.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 24, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a matter of fact, that’s precisely what i didn’t say. i hate to quote myself, but:
you point out potential outcomes for the cavs this year. that’s fine
i don’t mind idle speculation, even though it is completely pointless. obviously, i would love to see the cavs extend this winning streak to 21 games, but i’m not focused on that, and i don’t ultimately care if it happens. my concern is keeping everyone healthy, playing well going into the playoffs, and trying to secure home court. where we may end up in a hypothetical historical conversation is a waste of time.
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 24, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well thank God you are here
to keep everyone healthy and playing well.
In your world, it is pointless to look forward to something possibly happening. Good for you. Working your worrybeads at home won’t keep anyone healthy nor push the Cavs to win scoring battles in the paint.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 24, 2009 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i mean…i hesitate to even dignify this remarkably childish response, so i’ll be brief.
it will always be pointless to have a conversation like “this is the best team since the 95-96 bulls” with 12 games left in the regular season.
by DontCallMeJoey on Mar 24, 2009 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, all he said was it’s too soon to start making comparisons to all-time great teams. Let’s wait until the end of the season. Give it a rest, already.
by Buckeye Brad on Mar 24, 2009 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me give it a rest?
That’s hilarious.
by Hardcore Legend on Mar 24, 2009 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with joey on this one. I love how well we are playing. We have a chance to do something special this year. But it really all depends on what occurs in the playoffs. Counting chickens before they hatch should have been stricken from you if you are a fan of all Cleveland/Ohio State sports years ago.
Let’s just accept that the Cavs could be the best team this year, and depending on how they finish in the postseason, then try to rank them among the “best” of all time then.
And just imagine if we do win it all this year. Don’t you think LeBron and the rest will want to try and shoot for the Bulls record next season? (Not that its realistically attainable mind you)
by talonk on Mar 23, 2009 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Harmless Speculation
It’s what makes us fans. Nice post!
Oh The People You Meet When Your Out of Ammo.........
by Juannieboy on Mar 24, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How are they even bettter then last years celtics team
How are they better then the mavericks who finished 67-15 2 years ago (probably record u guys finish with)
yeah, lebron is great, but comparing the team to the 95-96 bulls is just stupid…
by TheAncientRivalry on Apr 13, 2009 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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