Magic rain down 17 threes, push Cavaliers to the brink 116-114
In a game the Cavaliers had to have, perhaps more so mentally then mathematically, they team with the best record in the NBA this season once again fell short. It surely wasn't for lack of trying, far from it. Playing what I consider to be their best offensive game of the series, the Cavaliers were outdone by another of the various weapons the Orlando Magic employ, Rafer Alston. If trying to defend Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis were not enough, Alston provides the Magic one more shooter, one more threat. While not known for being a dead-eye outside shooter, Skip-to-my-Lou definitely has a flair for the dramatic.
For much of the game, the Cavaliers looked like the team that won 66 games. Tough on defense, efficient on offense. Orlando did what it has seemingly done all season, use the three point shot to stay just close enough to make it a shooting contest in the 4th quarter. As has been the case this entire series, the Cavaliers lost that contest.
Thanks to LeBron James, and two clutch free throws, the Cavaliers were able to get the game into overtime, but again, as has been the case the entire series, the depth of the Magic was the difference. LeBron has looked worn out at the end of every game in the series, starting with the cramps in Game 1. Tonight it came to a nasty head with James turning the ball over 6 times in the 4th quarter and overtime combined. Maybe a full year of basketball is starting to takes its toll, but credit the Magic for hounding James, making everything he gets hard to come by.
LeBron had one more chance to make some magic of his own, a desparation 38-footer at the buzzer that would have saved the Cavaliers again. It missed, like many Cavaliers shots this series, James unable to do the impossible twice in the same week.
Mo Williams, he who guaranteed victory in Game 4, came out like a man on a mission, though his shot hardly backed up the talk. Williams ended the game is 18 points, only 6 after halftime, going 0-3 behind the arc.
We live in a society, especially as sports fans that love to look for blame. It just has to be someone's fault. Me? I prefer to give credit when it is due, even though it can be hard as hell to do. The Orlando Magic create matchup problems for the Cavaliers all over the floor. Having those matchup and taking advantage of them, however, are two different things. The Magic may not have LeBron James, but they have 6 guys that, individually, get just as hot, and be just as hard to stop.
The Magic shot nearly 45% from 3-point land, impressive by itself until you see they did it on 39 attempts. 17/38 from behind the arc is other-worldly. The Cavs made 5-19, meaning the Magic outscored the Wine and Gold 51-15 on three balls. That deficit is hard to make up.
This series to date has been decided by bad pass here, missed free throw there. Unfortunately for the Cavaliers, the Magic have made more plays, hit more shots.
So it has come to this, the Cavaliers on the brink of elimination for the first time in 2009. The Magic have been fresher, faster, and at times hungrier. If returning to The Q for Game 5 doesn't turn the tide, just a bit, it is going to be a long summer for Cavs fans. Again.
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I’m actually astonished we were that close at the end. A lot of that overtime was on LeBron… several turnovers and mental errors. I mean granted, it shouldn’t have come to that, but still.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 10:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
it's oooooover!
sorry ladies, i hate to say it but the series is over. whether orlando wins in 5, 6 or 7 games is still over. don’t be shocked, surprised or come up with excuses. the nba is all about match-ups and obviously orlando matches very well against cleveland. it’s just the way it is. just be happy you got past the first two rounds. you keep saying this series could very well be even at 2-2. but reality is that it should have been over last night. stop whinning and move on with life. after all, summer starts when your team is eliminated. enjoy your summer.
by sore cleveland loser! on May 27, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya know, the more I think about it, the more I think Brad is right.
The Red Sox, during both of their big comebacks, were the favorites in the series. Then they went down 3-0 and 3-1 and everyone wrote them off, only for them to come back, win the ALCS and win the World Series.
No way we can’t do that, too.
We got this.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 10:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Some people swear they down as can be
Turns out those same Homies Sit down to pee
by I blocked Patrick Chewing on May 26, 2009 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anything is possible
Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
by E5 on May 26, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya know, the more I think about it, the more I think Brad is right.
I keep trying to convince my wife of this fact.
by Buckeye Brad on May 26, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too. Want to run for office under the slogan “Brad is right?”
I become an expert simply by doing something.
by fwembt on May 26, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, hey… I better be getting royalties for that slogan.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure, you aren’t named Brad and I don’t think either Brad wants to pay you so, by very virtue of your slogan, I don’t think you see a dime. It’s a tough break, to be sure.
I really am feeling pretty positive after that game. Not sure why. It just feels like it is time for oen of our teams to do something improbably good. Screw it, we’re winning this.
I become an expert simply by doing something.
by fwembt on May 26, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GD right. I didn’t know it was possible to be heartbroken and positive at the same time, but that’s how I feel now.
I think I could live my whole life this way.
And hey, what do you know? Maybe my middle name is Brad.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m talking myself back into this. We win Game 5 at home. That leaves the game of the year for us to win. We played almost well enough to do it tonight, if we play like we did in the first half (more rotation, Mo/Delonte with the ball) we can beat the Magic at their place. That brings us back here for Game Seven. This city is ready for a winner and maybe, just maybe, this is that team. Yeah, we can do this.
And like I said on Facebook, I blame you for dragging me into this. My wife actually teared up after the game tonight. Cleveland sports, you have to love it.
I become an expert simply by doing something.
by fwembt on May 26, 2009 11:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly, I’ve just gotten really sucked into it this year. But when I go for something, I go all out. And I bring everyone with me. Just one thing:
This city is ready for a winner andmaybe, just maybe,this is that team.
Fixed, for victory.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I’ll have to admit, seeing the way the Cavs played all year long I was expecting at least a Finals appearance and had high hopes for a championship. If we don’t win it all I’ll be really, really disappointed. I thought this was finally the year for Cleveland.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 7:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll agree it's far from over Turk....great game by both teams tonight...greatly competitive series...
…i think the Magic know this too…since they were one of the 8 that lost being up 3-1 back in the Me-Mac days against the Pistons….I myself am not real comfortable with the T’s that Dwight is accumulating….i would hate to have to play the Cavs in an elimination game without him…and Thursdays game in Cleveland is going to be tougher than the Magic’s game 7 in Boston..
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 26, 2009 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, as much as I like Howard, I think he really has a lot of growing up to do.
Conversely, Turkoglu and SVG are really growing on me, for some reason.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Turk's really made a lot less stupid play in this series than he's usually prone too....
i guess he know’s that he can wipe out a season of blunders if he is focused in the playoffs…and he’s probably right… as for as for Howard…i like him not only for his obvious athletisicm…but because he’s an emotional player who really cares…which gets him in alot of trouble as we can see…but honestly…..i can’t really say his celebrating warranted a T…..i mean it’s not like he stood over the defender and posed or something…..i think the league office will take a long hard look at it at least.
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I mean I appreciate his dominance and joy for the game… I think him and LBJ would get along awesome on the same team (not that we’ll ever see that in the NBA, I know it was in the Olympics). But he still seems a bit overwrought emotionally at times.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well hey...he's only 23....
and it’s not like EVERY 23-24 gifted phenom can look and act like the 30yo Lebron does..lol…geeesh…cut the kid some slack…there’s only one Lebron..lol
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, no I know, I’m just saying. That’s his biggest flaw. Reminds me of CC Sabathia.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol...did i never tell you i am a Yankees fan..???
…probably not….. because i wanted us to stay friends…:)
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 2:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh geez…
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lol.....hey we'll keep it to basketball here at least....
…and the playoffs aren’t till October anyways,..:)
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lebron and Dwight should come over to L.A.
Kobe will take a pay cut for you. Plus Dr. Buss is loaded. Just sign on for one season. Then afterwards you can go back to your respective teams. That season will be fun to watch.
by laker on May 27, 2009 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dream on....Kobe will leave the Lakers long before Dwight ever leaves Orlando....
…if ever!!
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 2:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s that tiny problem of the salary cap. Never going to happen.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the bright side...
1194 comments in the game thread has gotta be a record
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by smashville on May 26, 2009 11:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
For FTS it is….
Great job everyone!!!
FTS
SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers Blogger
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on May 26, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"This series is not over"
~Charles Barkley
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
Official Graphic Designer/Researcher of MCM.
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by smashville on May 26, 2009 11:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No we have Barkely’s support??!?
FTS
SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers Blogger
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on May 26, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No=Now
FTS
SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers Blogger
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on May 26, 2009 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“If we think we don’t need Game 5, we’re in trouble. This is a long way from over” ~Stan Van Gundy
“He made a move like a tight end and got a good shot off… This guy is unbelievable” ~Stan Van Gundy on Lebron James
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
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by smashville on May 26, 2009 11:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As much as I want to hate SVG, I kinda love him. Reminds me a lot of myself. Prone to ridiculous emotional outbursts, but generally knows what’s going on. And he’s pretty damn entertaining.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never a dull moment when you have a self defacing coach that looks like a dead ringer ...
….for non other than porn star Ron Jeremy..lol…knows a little about basketball too..:)
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve actually always like SVG and I thought he was getting unfairly criticized earlier in these playoffs.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It just seems so impossible from here
even if we were a made shot away in Game 1 and Game 4 from being up 3-1, it doesn’t seem like it.
Can this team, with a guy averaging 41 points in the series win 3 straight? Sure.
But it seems so difficult from here.
by Hardcore Legend on May 26, 2009 11:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Channel positive thoughts, dude. I’m telling ya, we can’t give up until that final buzzer sounds.
We got this.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we almost had it tonight.
Slowly, but surely, we’ve been getting better in this series.
Heading home, we drove them to overtime on their court.
That’s a guaranteed win back in Cleveland.
It’s gonna be huge!
Historically huge!
by GekkouKitsune on May 26, 2009 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GD right
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep your heads up, and remember this

Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
Official Graphic Designer/Researcher of MCM.
Proud iPhone user. Take that, Jim Balls.
by smashville on May 26, 2009 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One game at a time
Cavs still just need to win one (1) game in Orlando. So, we have to beat the Magic like a red-headed step-child on Thursday night at the Q, then go back to Orlando and beat them . . . then it;’s home sweet home for Game 7.
It’s doable, altho not without a lot of work.
by bobdevo on May 27, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that sucked. We get exposed on defense time and again. Andy did ok on the screens but as soon as he fouled out, this game was over.
I become an expert simply by doing something.
by fwembt on May 26, 2009 11:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
“It can easily be a sweep, it can easily be a 3-1 ball game for ourselves…We gotta take care of business.” ~Mo Williams
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
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by smashville on May 26, 2009 11:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Everytime Lebron has at least 40 this series, we’ve lost :/
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
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by smashville on May 26, 2009 11:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lebron is falling in love with the long distance jumper too much. This is not his game.
His game is to drive and dish this way he either scores, gets fouled, or dishes to an open teammate. Also when he drives his teammates seem to move without the ball better because they might get the ball, the offense seems more fluid, and the scoring becomes more spread out.
When he is shooting the long distance jumper, his teammates for some reason tend to stand around watching and no one is getting into rebounding position.
In this series Lebron is settling mostly for jump shots. These are lower percentage shots than driving to the lane so it takes Lebron more shots to get to 40 points. Also when he takes his jump shots, like I stated before his teammates are not getting as many scoring opportunities. So he is going to more of the offense than he should.
by markclev2006 on May 27, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t say he’s settling mostly for jump shots. He drove the lane often last night, and I was glad to see him do that on the last play of regulation to force overtime.
The Cavs need to run more plays for Mo and Z and not run everything through LeBron. They do that early in the game but then abandon it in the second half. I know LeBron can get those guys involved, and he often does (or tries to), but they need to let Mo bring the ball up more and run plays to take the pressure off LeBron in the second half.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you’re spot on about getting the other guys involved. i can’t believe they haven’t posted z one time (that i can remember) when rashard is guarding him. you HAVE to exploit that matchup. also, more screens/curls for mo. i know he’s not hitting, but let’s get him some mid-range j’s to at least try to get him going.
i think mark has a point about lebron’s j’s. it’s not until late, but in the late 4Q and OT, the preponderance of lebron’s FG attempts were of the step-back, fire from deep variety. his shot w/ one foot on the line from the top of the key inside of 1 minute was one of the worst shots of his life.
by DontCallMeJoey on May 27, 2009 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the beginning of a dynasty?
This Magic team reminds me of the Patriots of 2002…not the favorites but they went on to rattle of championships….this team is poised for a run at a 3-peat….and let’s not forget Jameer Nelson has been hurt
by stlfilmaker on May 26, 2009 11:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
How bout you finish out this series first, buddy? You’ve still got a long way to go even for that.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are absolutely correct. The Magic are everything like the Patriots of 2002.
They obviously have a poised disciplined person running the floor (Rafer Alston is the Tom Brady of basketball), they have a hall of fame ruthless cut throat coach (Stan Van Gundy looks just like Bill Belichik, can’t you tell?) and they’re a multi-dimensional team that does more than just feed Dwight and shoot threes, just like the Patriots were multi-dimensional. What else did I miss… oh all they’re players rock at the fundamentals just like the Patriots do (ie. freethrow shooting, especially from Dwight).
ya know, the Magic are pretty much the 2000 Patriots. Absolutely. Not to mention they probably film their opponents defensive signals too
by laker on May 27, 2009 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your comments about Dwight's FT's look dumb considering the last 2 games
21-28 in the last 2……75% :)
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s see him do that for a full year then you can talk. Two game samples are meaningless.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
New sig. And new outlook. No more negativity. This is our year.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
very nice
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
Official Graphic Designer/Researcher of MCM.
Proud iPhone user. Take that, Jim Balls.
by smashville on May 26, 2009 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gracias
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 26, 2009 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TNT is pretty useless.
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
Official Graphic Designer/Researcher of MCM.
Proud iPhone user. Take that, Jim Balls.
by smashville on May 26, 2009 11:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
C’mon Magic fans, go back to 3QC.
And go here
Welcome to Smashville, Tennessee.
Official Graphic Designer/Researcher of MCM.
Proud iPhone user. Take that, Jim Balls.
by smashville on May 26, 2009 11:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The only 3QC member I recognize here is MagikFanatic and he's been behaving himself, it appears.
Tough loss tonight for the Cavaliers. I can sympathize. GL the rest of the way.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on May 27, 2009 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
.. and Aleta, too. Whoops.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on May 27, 2009 1:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im done!! Sorry if i miss behave!!
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(22 years and counting)
by Aleta on May 27, 2009 1:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No worries.
Just wanted to drop by and send well-wishes to the Cavs fans, here. Nothing more.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on May 27, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the support, erivera!
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem.
.. I can’t help but admire and marvel at LeBron.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on May 27, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All four games
In all four games, we’ve led at the half and are 1-3. I still think Cleveland can pull this series out, but we’ve lost on “magic” 3s in 2 games. I’m starting to think this isn’t our year when we lose games like we have.
by tfwagner on May 26, 2009 11:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
42% to 26% for 3’s this series, advantage Magic. That’s all there is to it. I’m not happy, but I can accept a losing when it’s like that. The Magic aren’t fundamentally better, and everyone clamoring about matchups (despite not really breaking down the matchups) aren’t correct, the Cavs are just ice cold.
by 7foot3 on May 26, 2009 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, I concur. The Cavs can’t match up on one one with Orlando’s front court. Consequently, there is a lot of scheming and movement to help out. It works great for the first, half, but by the second half, the Cavs are tired and rotating late, which leads to open threes, which leads to a ridiculously high three point shooting percentage.
by ShawnK on May 27, 2009 12:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about that. I think Andy and Wallace looked (relatively) fresh late. It’s Z’s painfully slow rotation that is killing us. We got 12 points and nine boards out of him tonight, that’s just not enough to compensate for how much he kills us on defense.
I become an expert simply by doing something.
by fwembt on May 27, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, but event those guys can’t handle Howard one-on-one. Someone always comes in to double. When that happens Howard kicks out and the defense rotates off. If they don’t double, Howard backs in for the easy shot. Rotating off Howard works if you can get back out to the perimeter in time to defend the three.
by ShawnK on May 27, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+2 with Z on the floor tonight, +13 for the series, best of any of our big men. Wallace is -34 for the series, he’s the one killing the team.
by 7foot3 on May 27, 2009 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, Z has the best +/- of anyone on the team this series, with West as the only other guy in the positive
by 7foot3 on May 27, 2009 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+/- is a horrific statistic for basketball. There is just no way it can be used to quantifiably demonstrate anything other than the scorekeepers ability to count. It fails to take into account personnel on the floor, game situation, or any other nuance. This describes some of the issues with it and methods of solving them.
Don’t take this as a personal thing, it certainly isn’t. It’s just that +/- is a very rough stat that doesn’t tell as much as it seems to. It’s the batting average of basketball. Anyone game planning for the Cavs can see that Z is the defensive weak link. Orlando is just very uniquely positioned to take advantage of that.
I become an expert simply by doing something.
by fwembt on May 27, 2009 12:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying it’s an excellent stat. But if we’re playing better with Z on the court (and we are through 5 games) then he’s certainly not killing us.
by 7foot3 on May 29, 2009 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are on to something.....
….defensive rotations on the outside shooters may be wearing down the Cavs trying to help double Howard in the middle…i wonder if the same would happen if the Cavs just posted Lebron down low and forced the Magic to do the same…..it would definitely be interesting if M. Brown tried this…because it sure would create a lot of space for Cavs shooters and a lot of foul trouble for the Magic big men. Not to mention that Lebron is a much better passer than Howard obviously….it would be genius if it worked!!
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cavs played their best game tonight and lost. The Magic still haven’t played anything close to a complete game. Your only hope is a win on Thursday with a crap technical thrown in to take Dwight out of game 6.
by Coup000 on May 26, 2009 11:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
While that would help immensely, it’s far from our only hope.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe in your chosen one.
If he is who everyone says he is, ala. the second coming of Michael Jordan, Then you guys have got this in the bag.
by laker on May 27, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, he almost did tonight. That last shot attempt was pretty close. Sure, he missed, but it was close.
by GekkouKitsune on May 27, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t believe how close we made that, actually
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No worries either one of two things is true:
Either James is the chosen one or he isn’t.
If he is the chosen one, then you guys have got this series as well as the next in the bag already.
If he ain’t the chosen one, then he wouldn’t be able to lead you guys to a championship anyways.
So either way, y’all can relax u know.
by laker on May 27, 2009 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But again!!
Pretty close or almost is not equal to be the be the one!! ; )
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(22 years and counting)
by Aleta on May 27, 2009 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d argue that game 1 was the Cavs best game. They only had 5 turnovers then and only got outrebounded because the Magic made 55% of their shots. Getting hotter from the perimeter over 4 games doesn’t trump the fact that these are two pretty equal teams from the perimeter (on both sides of the ball)
by 7foot3 on May 27, 2009 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never give up!
Remember Mo’ said it himself Cavs are going to the finals.
by laker on May 27, 2009 12:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow! As much as I can’t stand Yankees and Red Sox fans, I’ve never seen trolls like this from Pinstripe Alley or Over the Monster.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on May 27, 2009 12:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
We’re working on it…
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charles Barkley was right!!!
Hope he was also wrong though.
by laker on May 27, 2009 12:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts...
Thats pretty much the best game i’ve ever witnessed. I think the fans, just like the Magic, should be humbled with this victory because we WERE’NT all that spectacular this game, and that was a bit of a lucky win by us. From what i noticed, the Cavs decided to ignore Alston, for some reason, and they were really burned by it. Mo kind of disappeared in the second half, but West couldnt be stopped in the post it seems and ive got a new respect for the guy. Gibson’s two three-pointers we’re also huge. So yeah, im rambling but we seriously dodged a bullet in the fourth, the Magic have clutch players but DEFINITELY not as clutch as lebron and every freakin time he lobs up the ball from half court i develop a clot. The Magic just performed in OT to avoid a stunning loss. Im a Magic fan but oh man, i was freaking out at the end of the fourth. Both the Lebron foul by Air France and the No-Call on Dwight & Varejou after watching the the replays as lebron was definitely tripped and Howard and Varejou were all wrapped up. Ok, done rambling!
by Kennedy K on May 27, 2009 12:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha, yeah, it was a crazy stressful game. Tip of the cap for you guys hangin’ in there. and best of luck in Game 5.
Thanks also for contributing politely to our blog. We really enjoy hearing the other team’s perspective when it’s presented in a respectful manner.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How are y’all still up?!
I gotta get some sleep.
Magic fans: see ya at the Q for Game 5.
Cavs fans: hang in there, there’s a lot more series to go!
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 12:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Turk...have good night my man....where there's Lebron...there's always a chance...lol...
….and don’t think Magic fans don’t fear it…because they do!!:) And again…my apologies for the juveniles tonight…
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said it before, if Lebron is The Chosen One
then the Cavs have got this in the bag.
by laker on May 27, 2009 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not counting any chickens till we have 4 wins.....
…before that happens…..it’s still any ones series to win or lose!!
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1,000,000,000,000,000
Some people swear they down as can be
Turns out those same Homies Sit down to pee
by I blocked Patrick Chewing on May 27, 2009 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out of your control, brother. Thanks for playing nice, as usual.
Peace.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 12:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See you tomorrow Turk...i'm going to stay and try and instruct a humility class here....lol
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure this is the team that had 66 wins this season
I love my Magic, But seriously people? THIS IS FAR FROM OVER!!!!
Some people swear they down as can be
Turns out those same Homies Sit down to pee
by I blocked Patrick Chewing on May 27, 2009 12:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What have we learned?
-Small is good.
When we go small, we cause matchup problems for the Magic. They don’t like to play defense more than 5 seconds in a possession and give up easily if they get blown by. When we put Lebron at the PF, the lineup becomes dangerous.
-Like a Chinese Menu, you can only have one from each column
Mike Brown, you can’t have Big Z on the floor with any other big man. Nor can you have two offensive black holes in Andy and Big Ben on the floor at the same time. You can use Big Ben to keep Howard in check, as he did most of the game. You can use Andy to irritate him. You can even use Z when Howard is sitting on the bench. You can not let him guard Howard unless we have a double digit lead and you can only do it WHILE we have that lead. Oh yeah and Joe Smith, the leading scorer off the bench this series is still on the team.
-Howard is a one-dimensional passer.
He likes to throw to the top of the key, so stop doubling down from there.
-The Magic can shoot like we used to.
Their ability to make the one extra pass and hit the spot up 3 is what he Cavs killed people with. It’s left us now but they are setting records with it. We are halfway through the series now, so as a baseball fan would say, the reversion to the mean is going to be glorious.
-Mike Brown should go get a pretzel at halftime
Whatever his halftime adjustments are, he’s doing them wrong. There are few coaches who have historically been worse than Stan Van Gundy in Conference Finals and yet Brown is being outcoached by him. The Cavs 2nd half adjustments, which have been seemingly to abandon what works in the 2nd quarter and go to his ‘safe’ rotations is hurting the team.
The best case scenario for the Cavs is a win in Game 5 in which Dwight Howard once again throws a ill advised elbow and gets his 7th tech. Go back to Orlando without him and hope for the best.
Mike Brown has preached ‘One game at a time’ all season and it’s going to be put to the test these last 1-to-3 games.
by Hardcore Legend on May 27, 2009 12:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lol..i thought you were a little harsh on SVG.....but the rest of what you said certainly made sense....
…i for one wondered why Lebron would blow by his defender to get within 10 ft of the hoops only to pass it out again. I admit to not probably seeing his entire arsenal of weapons….but is he not good with the short jumpers??
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta be like Mike.
The answer is simple. The Cavs have to play as if not winning was unacceptable.
I remember watching Michael Jordan once during a playoff game with the Bulls. One of the other players had just done something stupid. Immediately, Jordan was in his face. I couldn’t read his lips, but the energy of it was, “This is not what we are doing here. We are going to play a high level of basketball. We are going to play to our highest potential. And we are going to win. That’s it. If you’re playing with me, then THAT’s the way you’ll play. That’s what I’m doing, and that’s what you’re gonna do.”
Jordan wouldn’t accept anything else, anything less, from those around him. Our Cavs have to play with the same attitude. It’s not a question of matchups or who’s played more close games or who’s reigning 3s on whom. It’s a question of energy and mental focus. Any team in these playoffs on any night in any location can beat any other team. Our Cavs could win it all. To get there, they might have to get angry at themselves And maybe Lebron is too nice. Maybe he needs to get angry like Mike got angry when he got in that player’s face. Maybe the whole team needs to get angry at themselves that they are down 3-1. Because, really, if the Cavs play in the MAGICAL way they played during the season, they are not down 3-1. (I mean, how many missed open shots, missed free throws, etc.) Nothing against the Magic, but if the Cavs play to their potential, they win this series. But it’s gotta come from inside.
Peace out.
by CleveFan on May 27, 2009 12:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Lebron is too nice a guy to be like Jordan in that respect....
…i became friends with Horace Grant when he came to play for the Magic and he said Jordan was the world’s biggest you-know-what to his team mates…!! I can’t see Lebron belittling anyone on his team to try and get there attention….which is one of the main reasons i like him…he;s not the Kevin Garnett type at all
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 1:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may be right.
LeBron may be too nice. Maybe nice guys don’t win it all. Jordan was probably the way you say, and the last 6 years with the Bulls he won the ring every time. I heard that Gandhi was a pain in the (etc.) to his family, but he accomplished something. I don’t know. There comes a time when intense mental and energy focus isn’t enjoyable to be around. It isn’t nice. But it can work MAGIC.
by CleveFan on May 27, 2009 1:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed....
…Maybe Lebron can channel his inner Jordan…only time will tell…
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jordan didn't win titles his last 6 years with the Bulls
They got beat in the `95 playoffs by Shaq, Penny, Grant and the Magic. (But thankfully swept them the next year ;) )
by BAB-Bass on May 28, 2009 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All you ledge jumpers who are so desperate to over-analyze, I hope you’ll answer an honest question: What would your analysis be if Delonte had snared that rebound with 6 seconds left in regulation? We win the game, and then you say what? That our gameplan was garbage? That we were lucky to win because we left all-star guard and long-time Orlando stud Rafer Alston open? That we can’t afford to keep sending Howard to the free-throw line because he rarely misses?
No. You’d be saying that in the face of the most improbably hot outside shooting that franchise has ever seen, we hung in and stole it on the road. You’d be saying that it’s amazing how few shots we’ve allowed Lewis to take in the past two games. You’d be saying that if we can smother Lewis and Turkoglu, you’l live with the results of Alston, Pietrus, and Lee firing away. You’d be saying that it’s great to see Booby hit some shots, and it’s amazing that a dead-tired LeBron had just enough to get us the lead with a minute left.
Most of all, you’d be saying that we’re not going to lose at home again. You’d be saying that we’ve proven we can win in Orlando, even when the Magic is hotter than a branding iron with a fever and our guards couldn’t hit sand if they fell off a camel.
Well, the result sucks, but that’s the review. There is always room to improve, but I will take my chances every time that we’ll get a rebound with 6 seconds left or Lewis will miss on a spinning fadeaway 25-footer. We played, all in all, an excellent game. And if the Magic extras never do cool off, that’s life. But I hope Alston takes another 17 shots in the next game, that’s for sure.
by tabler84 on May 27, 2009 5:59 AM CDT reply actions 6 recs
Perfectly said.
FTS
SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers Blogger
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on May 27, 2009 6:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just to put a point on it, we got killed last night by a journeyman guard about to turn 33. His career FG% is 38.6. That is not his career 3-pt . That is career FG. This is simply mind-boggling.
by tabler84 on May 27, 2009 6:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ev, that’s not an unreasonable point, but I suspect his shooting percentage is a tad higher on wide-open chances. It felt like those opportunities just kept coming for him last night too.
by CBusSteve on May 27, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not any more than usual. A guy who shoots that poorly always gets open shots. Remember Eric Snow? Rajon Rondo? Always open. Still clanking. Alston was stepping right into his shots like he was Rashard Lewis or something. I mean, two 20-footers in the first three minutes of the third quarter, and with reasonable time left on the shot clock?
by tabler84 on May 27, 2009 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very well said. There were many instances where one little play here or there would have given us a victory, so to act like the Cavs’ entire game plan is flawed is silly. We’re still in this series; it won’t be easy, but we can win three games in a row from this team if they finally stop shotting 3’s like they’re free throws.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how many 3-game winning streaks did the Cavs have this season, right? they’ve done it before, they can do it again. one of the hallmarks of this team all year was rebounding from losses. i hope the coaches are showing the players some of their highlights in the next 36 hours.
by DontCallMeJoey on May 27, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take It One Game At A Time
You’re right, Tabler. After the game is over, a lot of taunting and gloating begins. But a game this close (like 3 of the 4 games in the series so far) could easily have gone either way. And if the series were tied 2-2 right now, the Orlando fans would be sweating bullets, and Mo Williams would be saying “I told you so.”
The main thing is to take one game at a time, starting with Game 5 in Cleveland.
by BrownsCavaliersIndiansForev on May 27, 2009 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This needs to be green.
Very well stated.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on May 27, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Houston fan
don’t worry about Rafer taking 17 shots – he thinks he’s LeBron James now that he had his token good game of the post season.
"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018
by Artest4Prez on May 27, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely some good points....
…..if i’ve learned one thing visiting opponents fan blogs …it’s that perception is everything….and that no matter how logical and unbiased we all think we are….that there are 3 sides to every play…..the Cavs side…the Magic’s side…and somewhere in between lies the truth..lol!
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The truth is always in between. I’m simply stating my preference that we force Alston to take more shots than Hedo and Lewis. That’s what happened. We want Anthony Johnson and Courtney Lee chucking it up. We’ll live with the hope that Pietrus won’t make 50% of his bombs every game. If it keeps happening, we won’t blame our coach, we’ll praise him for forcing the Magic to beat us in a rather improbable fashion.
Listen, I dig the Magic a lot. I wanted the Celtics for a reason. I’m just laying out the facts, and the facts are that the Magic are on a shooting streak that has rarely been witnessed before. If that doesn’t stop, our season ends. That’s life.
by tabler84 on May 27, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had nightmares last night of Rafer Alston hitting three-pointers. I think I have PTSD.
I’m going to be sitting in a crowded restaurant with my girlfriend and leap up shouting “NOOOO! CLOSE OUT ON THE SHOOTER!!”
by Chemo on May 27, 2009 8:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I actually laughed at that.
I become an expert simply by doing something.
by fwembt on May 27, 2009 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was pretty funny...
..i could easily see myself doing that when sometimes during the regular season i am the ONLY guy in a bar watching the Magic game and screaming at no one in particular…while people look at me with bewilderment and fear..lol
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Brown's Coaching
Mike has been totally outcoached by – get this – Van Gundy!! Where is Sasha Pavlovic? What about Darnell Jackson. Jackson has big game experience from Kansas, he is 6’9" 240, is quicker than Z or Wallace and has a nice 8-12 foot jumper. Put him on Howard with instructions to foul him, push him and take him out of rhythm.
Brown needs to go deeper into the rotation to keep fresh legs in the game for defensive purposes. And Mo and Delonte need to step up. Delonte West can get his post-up jumper anytime he wants. Tell him to go for it. And SOMEONE needs to guard Alston – he KILLED the Cavs last night.
The Cavs aren’t out of this yet, they can win on Thursday and then they still just need ONE win in Orlando to force Game 7 in Cleveland.
The downside: given Z and Wallace’s age, the Cavs are not going to get better next year – they need a young big and they need him now.
by bobdevo on May 27, 2009 9:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What do you mean “where is Sasha Pavlovic”? He played the last two games and didn’t do anything in Game 3. He showed why he hasn’t been getting much playing time in the playoffs. I don’t mind playing Wally some minutes and giving him a chance to make some shots. He can provide more offense than Pavlovic.
And who cares about Jackon’s “big game experience” at Kansas? That doesn’t mean anything, and it’s not going to help him defend Howard or make shots. He’s just a rookie and doesn’t have the talent to give the production we need. There’s a reason he’s our 10th man (or whatever). If you think going to the end of the bench is going to help us then we’re really in trouble.
We do have a young big and his name is J.J. Hickson. I know he didn’t play much this year but that’s because he was still learning the game. He’s shown that he has the talent level to play in the league so hopefully next year he’ll know the defense better and get a chance to play. I think he can be a solid contributor off the bench next year.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree with about everything you said. Sasha did a far better job on defense that Wally, and Wally produced no offense. Knocking Jackson’s experience at KU is cute, but did anyone else on the Cavs team win an NCAA championship? Jackson played 4 years at a topnotch program, he;’s used to rpessure games, and he is fundamentally sound. He does NOT make the foolish mistakes Hickson does and he is a sure shot from 8-12 feet and knows how to get his shot. Plus, Hickson has the bad back. Jackson could guard the pick and roll better than Z and its 6 more fouls to put on Howard. Plus if he plays Howard hard, Howard may throw an elbow and be gone.
by bobdevo on May 27, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
SVG
Why is it that people badmouth Stan Van Gundy? Why a ‘get this’ statement about him? You do realize he has about the same or better winning percentage of Mike Brown throughout his career.. He took miami from 42 wins to the conference finals.. and now he has taken the orlando magic to the conference finals. The only reason he left Miami during their Championship run is because Shaq is an ass. This series is definitely not over, but SVG definitely deserves alot of credit.. Just because Shaq doesnt like you doesnt mean you are a bad coach.
by i2ambler on May 27, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, I like SVG and I never got the criticism of him earlier in the playoffs.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like absolutely everything about SVG. Smart coach, likeable guy, controls his emotions very, very well.
by tabler84 on May 27, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not Jackson’s experience that is keeping him out of games. It’s the fact he isn’t very good. Read what was written above, Alston is not a great player. He is hot right now and sometimes the right guy getting hot wins a series. Ranting about closing out on a career 38% shooter is just a sign of panic. Take a couple of deep breaths and get ready for tomorrow night.
I become an expert simply by doing something.
by fwembt on May 27, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a question
ok in the interest of full disclosure I am not a Cavs fan. I’m a Magic fan but like to think I am a rationale and good natured one. I just had a question I thought someone on the board might have a answer/thought on. The Chinese purchasing an interest in the Cavs… Rumor? true? also IF they do, how big would it be for the Cavs to then get Yao? feasible? possible moneywise?
thanks and well wishes the rest of the series
by mitchr on May 27, 2009 10:06 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good questions, and thanks for stopping by. Yes, it was reported a few days ago that the agreement had been reached with the Chinese investment group to buy a 15% share of the Cavs operating company (which owns the Cavs and Quicken Loans Arena). The PD had a detailed article about the agreement, I can’t find it now but there’s a link on the front page — look for my Fear The Links post from a couple days ago. That should certainly help LeBron with marketing opportunities in Asia.
As far as getting Yao, I don’t know his contract situation so I can’t really speak on that right now. I’d have to say that whenever his contract is up he’s probably going to get a max deal, and I doubt the Cavs could afford both LeBron and Yao under the salary cap when they’re both on max contracts. But I don’t know very much about the NBA salary cap so I can’t really say for sure.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the bigger question is, would we even want Yao? He’s more injury prone than Z.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but looks how Z turned out. He’s been healthy for quite a few seasons now.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not a risk I want to take for all the $$$ it will cost
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on May 27, 2009 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks, good stuff. I echo the thought about being injury prone that Turk made. Isn’t he still actually a Chinese citizen? dont they have some kind of military requirement? they could draft him and make him play.
by mitchr on May 27, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure if there was some kind of military requirement for Yao we’d have heard something by now, so I highly doubt it. As big of a star as he is in China I’d almost guarentee he could get an exemption.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I want to drown myself in a toilet right now, we need to remember one thing.
2007 Cleveland Indians
Enough said. Be the Red Sox.
by nosey313 on May 27, 2009 10:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There’s an appalling comparison.
I become an expert simply by doing something.
by fwembt on May 27, 2009 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, we made cleveland.com! Looks like we’re moving up in the world.
Of course, if this means an influx of cleveland.com posters then we’re in trouble.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The Master Plan
As a Laker fan, I’ve come to the realization that neither LA, nor Cleveland, is winning the Finals this year.
It’s gonna be the Magic.
But wait, you say. How does Kobe or Lebron NOT winning a championship help their ratings and draw more fans in?
Because the NBA has, and always will be, about the big men. Every era has it’s dominant big men. The Magic-Bird-Jordan era, which is one of the few where wing players dominated NBA Championships, was choked full of great big men who dominated the league.
But with the NBA on a withdrawal of dominant big men (there’s plenty of decent ones, but only a few HoF big men exist), they must push their best big man they have…. Dwight Howard. And what better way to cement his status as the new Superman who brought a title to Orlando, something the great Shaqzilla could never do?
This also has a two fold purpose. If the NBA is always looking out for the best option to increase it’s ratings and fans, Lebron winning championships in Cleveland is not the way. Having him get to the cusp and LOSE, however, is one of the few ways the NBA can force his hand and get him to move to New York. Then the next decade can be dominated by the Knicks with Lebron at the helm.
Note I don’t really believe any of the above, I’m not into the conspiracy theories… but sometimes it’s fun to see how it all plays out, almost like a convuluted WWE storyline.
Go Lakers!! Go Cavs!! Let’s rock and roll!
by tandur on May 27, 2009 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think you might be right but I hope, for the sake of the game, that you’re wrong.
Dwight Howard is bad for basketball. I’ll say it again: Dwight Howard is bad for basketball. Shaq was AWFUL for basketball, and the NBA is only now recovering from an era laid to waste by slow, center-focused offense. When Shaq came into the league, he forced other teams to go big and try to win titles with grinding offense and D. It nearly killed the league.
Now you’ve got a pretty similar player — a guy with very little basketball skill, but a ton of raw power. I hope, for his sake, he develops some actual basketball talent to go with his amazing strength. But for now he’s a throwback to the 90s, and I don’t dig it.
by tabler84 on May 27, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Magic-Bird-Jordan era, which is one of the few where wing players dominated NBA Championships, was choked full of great big men who dominated the league.
but it was still called the “Magic-Bird-Jordan” era. the great “personalities” that the league has pumped as big time stars have rarely been big men.
by DontCallMeJoey on May 27, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
once again
typical cleveland team…all show and no go…after having an outstanding season and going 8-0 in the first 2 post season series..they are being treated like a red headed step child by Orlando…all the talk about winning records and LeBron being MVP doesnt mean squat unless the win the ring…yes LeBron is the best thing to happen in Cleveland in a very long time….but that dont cut it…..people are saying Lebron was tired…he didnt get to rest…he has no help on the team…well thats what hes getting paid millions for……..unless Lebron and the rest of the team can grow a set of Balls and stop getting pushed around by Orlando, this season is truly over and done with and everything they accomplished this season is for nothing…and people need to stop comparing him to Micheal jordan…he is and never will be MJ….yes they are similiar in some ways…but not where it counts…and thats the ability to win the BIG ONE….and to all my fellow Clevelanders who boo’d and talked trash about Barkley…guess he will have the last laugh because it turns out he was right…doesnt that suck….
by George B on May 27, 2009 12:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and thats the ability to win the BIG ONE
You do realize, of course, that LeBron is ONLY 24 and in his sixth season, so critcizing him for this is a bit premature. Jordan didn’t win anything in his first six seasons, either. I know he’s a mythical figure now, but when he was young people thought he was just a scorer who couldn’t win the “big one”, too. So give LeBron some time, it’s way, way to early to judge him.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One could make the argument that this kind of failure
Could force the Cavs to re-think their decision on how much they “like” this team. That was pretty much everything anyone heard at the deadline was how much the Cavs liked their team.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True. This is a topic for the offseason, but if the Cavs do lose to the Magic then we’ll have to see if Ferry tries to just tweak the roster or if he goes for more drastic changes. Orlando has certainly shown some deficiencies in the Cavs, but on the other hand we’ve had good chances to win every game so I don’t think a total makeover is necessary.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is likely to be a hot topic for debate
What the Cavs should do to improve is any hot topic. Hell Kings fans on StR were dead split (like the same vote total) as to whether the Kings should have taken Griffin or Rubio if the Kings had gotten 1st in the draft. Some things are just bound to be hotter topics than others.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have to agree....which i'm sure is jaw dropping...lol..
…but you don’t just blow -up a 66 win team because they under performed in one series…or ran into a team that is over performing….which ever the case maybe. Let’s be honest…..the way this series has gone….the Cavs could just as easily been up 3-1 as down. But i do think they need better defensive and athletic forwards….at least if Lebron is going to be “guarding” PG’s…which in reality…he isn’t….as evidenced by Alston’s 26 points. And before you say it…sure he got hot…but if Lebron was REALLY guarding him…he would probably be putting up donuts. I just think this is a bad coaching call by Mike Brown
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with that
Just because the Cavs won 66 games doesn’t mean they were one of the best teams in NBA history. Winning a title is part of the deal. This team is clearly flawed (and so are the Lakers who won 64 games— they aren’t going down into the great team pantheon either) and I don’t think there is any OTHER way to look at it.
I understand the sentiment, but I simply can’t agree. Matchup problems aren’t going away anytime soon. If it isn’t the Magic, why not Boston? Why not Detroit, if they rebuild like we all expect them to? I understand all the potential counter-arguments, but those existed with the Magic.
I was watching the ESPN recap, and watching Scott Van Pelt talk with Tim Legler (I know I know) and Van Pelt said something interesting to Legler:
We kept watching the Pistons against the Lakers in 2004 and kept expecting that at some point the real Lakers to show up. They just never did.(That’s paraphrasing. Here’s the video if you want the proof. It’s toward the end of the clip about 65-75% through. Right after the Rashard Lewis interview.)
I do agree with Fanatik that LeBron not guarding Turkoglu or Lewis (preferably Turkoglu) is not helping the Cavaliers at all.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few observations
I wasn’t able to watch the game closely, but what I did see, for instance the last play’s of regulation to me is why so many people hate the referee’s. On one end, LeBron James gets a bang bang foul call that can be argued is a complete no call. On the next play, something isn’t called for Dwight Howard amid similar circumstances. It didn’t end up costing Orlando the game, and if it had, there would be much outcry about the star system and why the NBA wants a LeBron/Kobe finals (never mind that the Lakers are in a tied series themselves and are fighting for their life as well).
I think the biggest problem with Cleveland is their lack of a 2nd star. I’ve mentioned it here a few times, but Mo Williams isn’t that guy. That isn’t Mo’s fault; it’s a simple observation. If Mike Brown isn’t able to figure out how to get that 2nd threat for LeBron for game 5, there won’t be a game 6.
Last but not least, I think the 2 easy series for Cleveland has hurt them. They aren’t that close to being up 3-1 in this series, but at the same time, they aren’t that far away either. I think Orlando being tested by Boston’s mental toughness has helped them against Cleveland. They’ve had dehabilitating shots go against them before, and the outside world was caught up in it. They should have been. Yet, they simply shrug anyway.
What’s really been lost is that I don’t think Orlando or Cleveland has played that perfect game yet. Orlando’s offense & defense hasn’t fired on all cylinders yet, and obviously Cleveland’s hasn’t yet either. I thought Doug Collins made an interesting point that the best offense from Cleveland came in the 1st qtr of game 1. Since then, it’s been all downhill for Cleveland (obviously). What makes it so intriguing to me is that offense came on the heels of Cleveland’s dominance of the first 2 rounds. Meanwhile Orlando had 2 tougher 1st round opponents.
If anything, this might help LeBron and the Cavs be able to take that next step for next season & beyond if they aren’t able to make the comeback in this series.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 1:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i gotta disagree pretty fiercely with your representation of the last 1 second last night. the foul called on pietrus was a clear blocking foul. the TNT guys (not exactly the arbiters of international truths, but astute basketball observers) said as much after the game. there should be no quarrel, among reasonable, dispassionate people, that pietrus fouled LeBron. on the other end, the TNT guys, again, said that it was a very good no call on the howard/av play, and that howard was even potentially lucky not to have an offensive foul called against him. orlando apologists have spent a lot of time bemoaning the fact that howard has fouls called on him when he “stands straight up”, well, that’s what av did, in spite of howard pulling, pushing and roughing him up. i’m obviously biased, but i feel vindicated by the TNT analysts’ takes.
the absence of a supporting cav to step up and shoulder some burden is clearly the cavs’ biggest issue in the first 3 games, you’re right. mo was that guy all year, and i know you’re not impressed with him, but it’s not unreasonable to expect that he shoot the ball at something closer to his 47% season average than his current 32% in the series. maybe mo isn’t a great 2nd, but at this stage, given how dominant LeBron is, all he needs to do is knock down j’s. he’s clearly capable of doing that, he’s just not doing it over the last 4 games.
i think the toughness of the first two series(es) is really overblown, personally. granted, orlando has taken blows and recovered, and i’m sure that’s helped, but the story here is that orlando is smoldering hot from downtown, and the cavs are ice cold. maybe the cavs’ long layoffs can explain some of that, but it doesn’t explain 4 games’ worth. the competition in the earlier rounds, to me, means little.
if the cavs don’t come back in this series, you’re going to see a man (even more) possessed in LeBron next year. he knows he had the best team this year (and he did), and not getting it done would be a massive motivator, i agree with you. hopefully, it’ll be a motivator for mo and z and delonte (although he was nails last night), too.
by DontCallMeJoey on May 27, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don’t see any way that people can think LeBron wasn’t fouled at the end of regulation. If they’re saying that then they aren’t being objective. And the Howard/Varejao tieup was a good no-call; they were both locking arms and the foul could have gone either way if they called one. I don’t see any way possible that Magic fans could complain about those calls, but Magic fans have surprised me in the past with their whining about the refs.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't see it
Your’e not being objective. I don’t blame you, but in my view it’s inconsistent officiating. I don’t really think Anderson Varejao fouled Howard either. I just think that you can make that argument based on the play and how it was called for LeBron James. That was really my point. In a way, it hurt the Cavaliers. All it really did serve was to fire Dwight Howard up in OT anyway. The Magic use slights such as that to their advantage.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LeBron got tripped (not explicitly, but their legs banged together and LeBron fell down) — how is that not a foul? I’m trying to be objective here.
by Buckeye Brad on May 27, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that kind of play is a no call
Always have and always will. Mostly I want consistency. I perceive inconsistency with how the referee’s call the game. I perceive that when Kobe is on the floor too, but again, we’re not talking about the Lakers.
Watching that play live I thought I it was a bad foul call. I thought it was because LeBron James had the ball in his hand and it LOOKED like Pietrus was out of position. Normally I don’t think too much of a play like that in the 3rd qtr. I still think it’s wrong, but it probably won’t determine the outcome of the game.
I’m always of the mindset that a player must determine the outcome of the game. That play, in my opinion, is not such.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think if you have a chance to see the floor level camera from the opposite “end zone” (under the hoop), you’ll see clearly that pietrus’ right arm came up and pulled LeBron down with him.
by DontCallMeJoey on May 27, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhm okay
I don’t clearly see things one way, but seeing it again would help.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’ll take a look for that angle. i thought it helped me see that it was a foul, but i’m definitely wearing a cavs hat…
by DontCallMeJoey on May 27, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't expect otherwise
Look I’m a Kings fan. I have as much right to scream about the referee’s as anybody, but I don’t. Some of the worst calls I’ve really honestly seen are things that people have forgotten (like some of the calls that happened to the Kings in 2005 right before Webber was traded). It got some mock outrage, but Kings fans don’t talk about it daily. They still talk about Horry’s shot, but they forget John Stockton’s dagger in 1999.
Everything is subjective.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh slow down
What you said:
the absence of a supporting cav to step up and shoulder some burden is clearly the cavs’ biggest issue in the first 3 games, you’re right. mo was that guy all year, and i know you’re not impressed with him, but it’s not unreasonable to expect that he shoot the ball at something closer to his 47% season average than his current 32% in the series. maybe mo isn’t a great 2nd, but at this stage, given how dominant LeBron is, all he needs to do is knock down j’s. he’s clearly capable of doing that, he’s just not doing it over the last 4 games.Between our lil tete a tete over Mo Williams being clearly better than Derrick Rose (he’s not but whatever I don’t want to pick a fight; nor do I really care), you clearly think I think ill of Mo Williams.
In actuality, I like Mo. Liked him in Utah, and liked him in Milwaukee. Given that Cleveland didn’t give up any stellar talent to get Mo in the first place, I think that deal will, and should be, considered a slam dunk deal for Cleveland.
However, that being said it doesn’t change that Mo Williams is not a 2nd star on any other playoff team that is a caliber of the Cavaliers team. Noone else on this team is a real legitmate all-star (there is no way you can argue that Rondo was less deserving than Mo Williams for the All-Star team) in my opinion. That isn’t changing, and I think it’s a weakness. I also think it’s a function of the bad contracts that Danny Ferry signed with Larry Hughes & Zydrunas Ilgauskas in 2005. You pay the piper for bad money moves in the NBA, and Cleveland is paying that piper. In the 2009 Eastern Conference Finals with the best player in the world. In the grand scheme, I don’t think it means much other than some of Dan Gilbert’s money being wasted. (That, and those moves did help LeBron believe that the franchise WAS TRYING to get better rather than being happy they had him.)
Now, nobody would argue that Mo Williams is shooting poorly. But, his struggles I think are partly mental for trying to hold a mantle he isn’t suited to hold. He isn’t a 2nd option a championship team. Not on Boston, LA, Denver, Dallas, San Antonio, Phoenix, must I keep going? I don’t think so. None of those players have LeBron James, but I might remind that Michael Jordan played with Hall of Fame teammates too. You need top talent to be truly dominate in the NBA, and that’s something the Cavaliers don’t have today.
That being said, when the best player in the NBA is only 24 years old, and you have a very high probability of being able to retain him in the off-season a little more than a year away, one thing you have is time. So we clearly agree on that point.. What we don’t agree that this failure will make this group more potent. Recent history (Dallas namely) suggests that this is not clearly so. And, I feel that Josh Howard is a cut above Williams when he’s healthy and his head is in the game.
All this discussion proves is that having difference of opinion means just that. Good luck in the rest of the series.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i want to clear 2 things up, w/o rehashing our argument: 1. i never ever said mo is clearly better than rose, i said i think he is better today; 2. i do believe that mo was an all-star over rondo…in the first half of the season, mo was better for a better team. BUT, as i said, i don’t want to rehash that argument, i just wanted to make sure i was clear, especially about the first one.
i’m not going to argue with you that mo would not be the second best player on any of the other remaining teams. the thing is, though, he only has to be the second best player on the cavs. LeBron, as we know, does everything exceptionally well…which means that the second best player on has to do a couple of things pretty darn well. for mo, he has to shoot the rock, initiate the offense most of the time, and play good enough defense. he did all of those things at a high level all year. if we were getting a regular season-level performance from mo in these playoffs…well, dare i say the cavs would be up 3-1 in this series. maybe you’re right that he’s wilting under the pressure of trying to take pressure off of LeBron, but his regular season play would be good enough for this team to be ahead in this series.
on the motivation point, i think the big difference b/w the cavs and mavs (your example) is LeBron. dirk is no LeBron, from a lot of perspectives, not least being leadership. jordan used losses to teams like the pistons to fuel his fire.
we’re going to need some of the luck that you wish…should be exciting.
by DontCallMeJoey on May 27, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no need to make the argument that Mo wouldn't be the 2nd best player on any of the other championship caliber teams; it's plain obvious
You touch on an important point that I think some people are missing: Mo only has to be the 2nd best player for the Cavs. But, here’s the problem, talent wise, there is very little that differentiates the Cavs when you’re talking about Williams, West and maybe even Gibson at some point. (Although that is less likely I’ll admit.)
The other part I disagree with is that it’s hard to expect regular season performance to absolutely carry over in the playoffs. Those numbers Mo put up came up against God-Awful teams (witness the 41 he dropped on the Kings in February in Cleveland) as opposed to the 51 that LeBron scored for Cleveland in the win the Cavs had in Sacramento. Which means more? Maybe for long term, Mo’s 41 meant more. But, that’s less likely to happen for Cleveland in the long run. I think the best gauge of Mo Williams would be to average his numbers against the top 4 seeds in each conference, and the top 8. Then, maybe there might be some correlation to how he’s doing in the playoffs.
I guess what I’m saying is that I don’t really believe that Mo’s season performance, while very very good, is not necessarily something that can be carried over into the playoffs. Simply put, LeBron James is a matchup nightmare for everyone, but over the course of the season, but it’s not a burning fire like the playoffs. We’ve all heard the cliches of how the regular season is a marathon and the playoffs are a sprint. Well, simply put, I don’t think the Cavs are as capable of sprinting with this group no matter how well they performed during the regular season.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think you’re way wrong on the relative talent levels of mo, west and boobie. mo is clearly the best of that group, as a scorer, a distributor, and being the “2nd” to LeBron. west is a great glue guy, does a lot of things very well, and boobie is strictly a shooter.
as for regular season numbers carrying over to the playoffs, i’m not sure what else you would expect? i think i see what you’re saying, but a couple of big games against bad teams wouldn’t skew 81 games worth of data for mo very meaningfully. he showed the ability to consistently, over the long haul, shoot 47% from the floor and 44% from downtown. he didn’t have so many games against bad teams where he went 15-20 from the floor and 10-11 from downtown as to make his numbers less meaningful than any other player.
LeBron is a nightmare, you’re right, but part of what i’ve liked about this team is that he creates opportunities for mo, and if mo is cold then for delonte, and if delonte is cold then for z, and if z is cold then for boobie, or sasha, or wally…since LeBron does so many things so well, you only ever really need one other guy to put out digits in order to be successful. they may not all be sprinting, and the same guy may only sprint once or twice, but there are supposed to be enough guys that LeBron and one other could sprint pretty close to every night. that’s what’s so vexing to me in this series—everyone has disappeared.
by DontCallMeJoey on May 27, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything you just said in all 3 paragraphs (except for the delineation of talent from Williams to West to Gibson) is why I think the Cavs are flawed
Nearly every championship team in recent history has had clear upper tier players at more than 1 postion. The Cavs have exactly one. And until they get another of those players like Mo Williams at the very least, I don’t see how they win a championship.
As great as LeBron is, I think the team revels, but suffers, from his shadow. Especially i in a series against the Magic where the dynamics of matchup’s are determining the series.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’ll say that while overwhelmingly a blessing, having LeBron on the team is a bit of a good news/bad news proposition. i do think the other guys stand and watch, and lean on him to bring home the bread a bit too much. the good news, though, dramatically and epically outweighs the bad, so it’s not really much of a discussion.
i guess where we’re disagreeing here is in execution vs. ability. my contention remains that the abilities of the guys around LeBron lend themselves to a supporting cast capable of winning a championship. to me, the faults in this series are a matter of execution. your point seems to be that these guys just don’t have the ability to execute at a high enough level. while i feel the numbers back up my position, it’s hard to prove either side, so let’s just say i hope i’m right!
by DontCallMeJoey on May 27, 2009 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your last couple sentences are the perfect conclusion to this
Again, good luck.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on May 27, 2009 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think pookeyguru is right...for the most part..
I know I’ve badgered a few of you, just know it’s in good fun (please). I mean no ill-will by it, you can check my references (well, except Celticsblog they’re overly sensitive there)…
I was surprised to see how efficiently Mo played this season, and was even more surprised to see how well the defense played with him in the starting 5. Mo has never been a defensive stopper (I’ll grade him at a younger Derek Fisher level), but somehow the CLE defense remained at the top for the duration of the season.
I am not surprised, however, to see him struggle in the playoffs. Mo is a very arrogant player, who has not earned any of the respect he has gotten this season. He was a chucker in Milwaukee, and now he’s an all-star in Cleveland?
Again, I give him about as much respect as I give David West for his all-star selection, none. I don’t think Mo can be a #2 option for a superstar lead team, he is too small, he is not a great ballhandler, and he can not create shots for himself. He can wait for the pass on a drive and kick (like Kirk Hinrich) but he is not going to drive past his man and create for others.
I’ll put Mo in the Kirk Hinrich/TJ Ford category. Mid-level point guard, not really worth his contract, will be traded several times in his career, etc. Good player when the pressure isn’t on, don’t count on him when it’s on the line though…
and of course, I mean that in no disrespect to the guy… too many years of watching him in Milwaukee and talking smack to Chauncey Billups (who made Mo his b*tch then) for me…
by Boney on May 27, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong!
You are wrong – Mo didn’t guaranty a win in game 4 – he guaranteed a SERIES win!!
by jjtt180 on May 27, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually he guaranteed both....
"if you're going to cry...go cry to your mama"
by MagikFanatic on May 27, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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