all were traded in order to acquire both scola and bell

yeah this is terrible.

this post was “my idea of what the cavs roster should look like”

West and Varejao for Bell and Scola makes us better? 13.9 WS, 8.9 WARP, 13.8 WP for the former and 11.9 WS, 2.6 WARP, and 12.2 WP for the latter. Not to mention the latter two are older. It’s going to take some pretty convincing work to change my mind.

you sir have vision:)

That’s a good line up you put up,and I think a much better team.

I think you’ve mostly argued that a hypothetical Cavs team would be better than the actual Cavs team. We can’t check that in June.

good show chap, we shall see come november! not june

you are of course entitled to your opinions and wishes…i just would like to see more meat behind what you’re saying. clearly, you like raja bell and luis scola, and that’s fine, but i’d be interested to see some numbers that back up why those two would be better than the players the cavs currently have…or, said differently, you have to tell me more, quantitatively, than “scola can score and bell fits in anywhere he goes” to convince me that they’re better players, and/or the team is better with them.

delonte west is a much better player than raja bell by every statistical measure…including defense. the only time bell ever stopped kobe was with that elbow to the throat a couple of years ago. the cavs would be a significantly worse team w/ bell at the 2 over west.

what’s more, anthony parker and jamario moon are much more valuable length/stretch defenders (and shooters, for that matter) than raja bell…and the cavs have both of them.

also, scola is not a 3pt shooter.

otherwise, great work.

gladly. first, you’re showing 2 articles from 2006 and another from 2008. we’re approaching the 2009-2010 season…this argument is about who is better TODAY, not who was better at guarding kobe in a playoff series 2, 3, 4 years ago.

as well, you’ll notice on basketball-reference.com that in 2008-2009, raja bell’s defensive rating was 111, which means that his estimated points allowed per 100 possessions was 111. in 2008-2009, delonte west’s defensive rating was 104, a full 7 points lower than bell’s per 100 possessions. what’s more, over the last three seasons, bell has put up DRtg of 110, 111, 111; west has posted 108, 108, and 104. not a fluke 2008-09 result. furthermore, when comparing bell’s offensive rating (an estimate of points scored per 100 possessions) to his defensive rating, in 2008-09, bell was a net negative for his teams — ORtg of 109, DRtg of 111, costing his team 2 points per 100 possessions. west, by contrast, was a net positive for the cavs, logging a 114 ORtg, and contributing 10 points per 100 possessions to the cavaliers. i also mention in another post above that west can handle the PG duties when called upon…a skill that raja bell does not possess.

bell’s WARP was negative last year, west was a +3.4. bell shoots a better clip from 3 (42.1% vs. 39.9% for west in 08-09), but west’s true shooting , which takes into account 2’s, 3’s and FT’s was a superior 55.9 vs. 54.8% for bell. lastly, on the bell/west front, bell turns 33 this season, delonte 26. i feel comfortable that we’ve put this one to bed.

moon’s DRtg was 107 last year (ORtg was 116), he contributed 3.2 WARP (versus a negative WARP for bell), and his TS% was an even more impressive 56.7% vs. 54.8% for bell (though bell had the pure 3 point edge here). parker was less statistically impressive than west or moon, but was still better overall than bell: contributing 0.7 WARP (versus negative WARP for bell). looking at the numbers, i overstated his value, relative to bell, as far as shooting and defense: parker’s DRtg was the same as bell, 111, while his ORtg was a less valuable 105; his TS% was lower than bell’s, as was his pure 3-point shooting.

most importantly, bell was not available through free agency, which really makes this argument purely academic. however, i think it is abundantly clear that both west and moon are substantially superior contributors at this stage of their careers, and two guys the cavs would much rather have than raja bell, both offensively and defensively. anthony parker, on the other hand, is perhaps much closer to bell as a value proposition, but parker had a better WARP (and ultimately, isn’t wins what this game is all about?) and was available, unlike bell. i can’t imagine a legitimate piece (a contributor) from this cavs team that i would move out for bell.

well, now we’re being ridiculous. bowen’s numbers are much worse than west’s (DRtg, ORtg, TS%, WARP), for one thing; for another, ariza isn’t clearly better (similar DRtg, ORtg, inferior TS%, 1.6 more WARP than west); and finally, how many names do you want to throw at the board? dwyane wade and brandon roy would be better at the 2 than west…you left them out.

west held hedo, a much bigger player, to 39% shooting in the playoffs, below his season average of 41.3% shooting. as well, from a points allowed and FG% allowed perspective, the cavs were top-2 in the nba at the shooting guard slot (according to 82games). that’s not just b/c of “off nights”. of course, west didn’t log all of the SG minutes, nor did he guard every SG for every second, but it stands to reason that he was a big part of that performance as our starting 2.

i’m not saying that west isn’t undersized, or that that doesn’t represent a problem for him and the cavs…what i am saying is that it’s an easy crutch to lean on to say “west is too small”, and not look deeper into the numbers to see that, despite his size, he defends very, very well. west’s size is not a particularly large issue for the cavs…the numbers show that.

but you also overstated this: "delonte west is a much better player than raja bell by every statistical measure…including defense".

i’m ready for you to prove me wrong. i just don’t see you doing so. by what statistical measure is raja bell, today, a superior basketball player to delonte west?

Do you really not know how to use the reply button?

hedo dropping 2% is nothing to speak about (versus 11ppg under ave for bell guarding kobe)

once more, you’ve focused on the wrong numbers. kobe’s ppg may have declined, but that’s beside the point. there are any number of reasons points could go down…fewer shots, fewer minutes, blowouts keeping him on the bench, injuries.

what’s actually important is that in the 6 games in which raja bell played in the 05-06 lakers/suns series, kobe’s FG% was 47.2%, as compared to his regular season FG% in 05-06 of 45.0%. kobe’s TS% for the series was 58.7% versus 55.9% for the regular season. so, actually, kobe was better offensively in the playoffs (against raja) than he was in the regular season.

TNT analysts have also help pushup contests against female crew members on live TV.

Learn to use the reply button.

good looking out, ill remember next time

no stat is bigger than the "win-loss" stat, remember that, and raja bell is simply a winner.

this is such a joke. wins and losses, especially in basketball, are about so much more than one player — not to mention a role player (which is what bell is and always has been). what a horrible “stat” to quote…and what, exactly, has bell won?

no stat is bigger than the "win-loss" stat, remember that, and raja bell is simply a winner.

Raja Bell’s teams have won as few as 26 and as many as 61 games. The reason for the differences? The other 11 guys on the roster. You absolutely cannot judge one guy on his team’s W-L record. Not even Lebron James. There’s a lot of other factors. You say it yourself, West is a better player. Why do we need to go any further? You still don’t prove how he throws off the balance of the offense. The need better players, period. Fitting the right player into the right scheme works, but it can’t take a backseat to pure talent. And they have a larger defender that can hit shots already. Parker. And there isn’t any proof out there that Bell can guard Kobe better than West. And there’s no proof that this is something the Cavs need to focus on. In fact, most of the evidence points against those two things.

We get it, you are just voicing your opinion, but you have to be prepared to accept that some people will disagree and can defend their opinion better, even if we’re all Cavs fans.

We’ve heard this multiple times, almost verbatim. Would you like it if everyone repeated their exact arguments again as well? Unless you’re going to respond to the arguments that West is the superior defender in the present, and anecdotal evidence from a few years ago doesn’t mean much, or that West’s offense has been such a significant boost to the Cavs, who have tried players with similar (poor) offensive abilities to Bell’s, that we do need someone who can create in the backcourt, then we’ve thoroughly beaten this discussion into the ground.