Sources: Hickson, Ilgauskas to Suns for Stoudemire
The Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.
The Cavaliers would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league's most dominant big man.
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The Z Trade
I would rather give up a first round pick then Hickson.
Yeah, me too
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by Jeff at the BBC on Feb 14, 2010 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
Of course, but any team would want Hickson over a low first round pick
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 1:11 PM CST up reply actions
I'm going to trust Danny Ferry on this one
I hope it works out, but I have my doubts. However, I’ll just surrender and allow faith in Ferry to override my concerns. Here’s why.
I am a fan of the Cleveland Cavaliers.
So is Danny Ferry.
I believe I know what is best for this franchise
So does Danny Ferry.
I was around this team when they were making some awful trades that had no chance of making us better.
So was Danny Ferry.
I was around this team when they were making trades that took this team from a lottery team to the NBA elite.
So was Danny Ferry. He was the guy making those trades.
Game. Set. Match. You win, Mr. Ferry. Thank you, sir, may I have another?
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by Jeff at the BBC on Feb 14, 2010 8:57 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Theres always concerns with any trade but IMO the positives far far far outweigh the negatives here. Some people say Amare doesn’t focus on D…he plays in Phoenix, noone focuses on D in Phoenix.
I criticize Brown as much as anyone but one thing he does know is D, and i remember when we traded for Mo everyone said his defense would let us down, now look how far he’s improved. I’m confident Amare is talented enough to fit right into our system on D, and be one hell of an upgrade on offense.
As well as this helping us in the near future i think it’s an even bigger boost to our long term chances. Lebron now has an all star in his prime in Cleveland, if he had any reason to leave before he now has absolutely none. I think this trade is as good as having Lebron’s signature on an extension.
People criticized Ferry when he got Shaq saying he won’t fit into our system (sound familiar?) and look at us now. It’ll be the same story with Amare, people will have their opinions but the team will silence them with results on the court.
I’m going to trust Danny Ferry on this one
Even though I have not agreed with this trade since the rumors started, if it’s done, I’m going to trust Danny Ferry. I think he’s a great GM, and does what’s ultimately best for the Cavs…
at the same time (just playing devils advocate) amare doesn’t play D as well as he did a few years ago. it is a similar system as the suns had then (run and shoot, the D’antoni style), but not exactly the same. still, amare doesn’t make an impact on D like he used to. granted, he might improve if he buys into the system. the problem is that IF but I believe he will fit (just like you said with mo)
I do agree it helps us in the near future, and can help us in the long term. not only does it help us keep lebron but it can help us win this year. if by some wild turn of events, the cavs flame out and lebron leaves, we still have amare who still might stay with the cavs (especially if we sign him long term after trading for him) because we still have pieces like mo and delonte. at the same time, these turn of events IMO are highly unlikely.
the only thing I truly worry about is how he will play with Shaq. one of the reasons shaq was traded is b/c him and amare didn’t work together on the floor well. Shaq’s role has changed somewhat but this still might be a big obstacle.
i still think we should just wait til summer and get chris bosh. but hey its only 1 man’s opinion.
by eye_was_born_ready on Feb 14, 2010 10:02 AM CST reply actions
Keep it at an opinion because the Cavs don’t have the cap space to sign Bosh. He would have to be aquired in a sign and trade type of deal which the likelyhood of such a deal is not very high.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Feb 14, 2010 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
We’ve already told you that the Cavs won’t have the cap space to sign Bosh.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions
The Suns would likely waive Ilgauskas, a move that would allow him to be re-signed by Cleveland after 30 days.
I really like this portion, and will be very hopeful that it happens.
even if this doesn’t happen, I still like the trade. even though we get less deep at Center, Andy can play minutes there, and we can pick up a guy who is a FA or play powe some at center.
there are decent centers in Free agency in case Z doesn’t get a buy out. guys like lorenzeen wright (who was on the cavs last year), Chris Mihm (also once on the cavs), scott pollard (on the cavs at one point and a fan favorite for a while if I rememeber).
the talent pool for guys who aren’t on a team is surprisingly high. granted I would rather have Z but I would not mind scott polllard or wright.
even if this doesn’t happen, I still like the trade. even though we get less deep at Center, Andy can play minutes there, and we can pick up a guy who is a FA or play powe some at center.
there are decent centers in Free agency in case Z doesn’t get a buy out. guys like lorenzeen wright (who was on the cavs last year), Chris Mihm (also once on the cavs), scott pollard (on the cavs at one point and a fan favorite for a while if I rememeber).
the talent pool for guys who aren’t on a team is surprisingly high. granted I would rather have Z but I would not mind scott polllard or wright.
I'll miss JJ.
He’s a better player than Amare right now, except when it comes to drop step and dunk.
We are taking on a player who has had a MAJOR knee injury and MAJOR eye injury. Damaged goods.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 14, 2010 10:15 AM CST reply actions
the eye was a freak accident, i’ll bet my house on it never happening again. as for the knee it’s small enough in the rear view mirror that it doesnt worry me, he’s played 79+ games for the last 3 seasons except for when he had the eye thing so that tells me his knee has healed properly
by CavsLebronFan on Feb 14, 2010 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
In what way is Hickson better than Stoudemire? Stoudemire holds the edge in true shooting percentage, rebounding percentage, and offensive rating. The only area Hickson ranks higher than Stoudemire is defensive rating and as bad as Stoudemire’s defensive rating is, it is is still second best on the Suns. Before the knee injury he posted PERs of 16.2, 19.8, and 26.6. Since the knee injury he’s put up 23.1, 27.6, 20.3, and 20.2. Z is the only player to have played with Lebron to even approach these numbers when he posted a 21.9 in 05-06.
by rockemsockem on Feb 14, 2010 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Per 48 minutes
Since Amare is a starting PF that gets 34 MPG and JJ is being limited to only 19.3, we have to level the playing field here. To do so, extrapolate the two players to 48 MPG. Even at that, we aren’t getting a true level playing field because Amare is the #1 scoring option on the Suns while JJ is the #4 option no matter when he is on the floor.
But..PER 48.
PPG
Amare – 29.3
JJ – 18.4
FGA
Amare – 19.8
JJ – 13.9
JJ is shooting .553, Amare .555. If you gave JJ the same volume of minutes and touches Amare is getting as the #1 offensive option on the Suns, we’d be getting the same production but at half the headache and price.
Rebounds per 48:
Amar’e – 11.8
JJ – 10.9
Do I think JJ is likely to maintain such a high level of play with the added minutes? Probably not. But Amar’e is going to see a significant drop in his production as the #3 or #4 scoring option behind Lebron, Shaq and Mo.
So, really….what are we trading for? 2 tenths of a percent better shooting and an extra rebound a game?
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 15, 2010 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
By that logic Danny Green is our fourth leading scorer. PER is adjusted for playing time. It’s a rate not a counting stat.
by rockemsockem on Feb 15, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
you seriously think that right now JJ is better than amare??
I love JJ a lot but I don’t think he is at all better than amare. it is ludicrous to think so.
-Amare when focused is twice the shot blocker JJ will ever be
-He also defends the pick and roll better.
-He has more strength
-drives to the basket better
-he does have a better drop step and dunk
-He is also much more of an efficient scorer
-He is a much better free throw shooter (makes about 9 more per 100) and gets to the line much more.
-Hickson is a good finisher, but amare still is better
-Hickson has not developed great shooting range. Amare has.
-Neither one is a superb passer, but amare is much better and much more refined in this category.
Here are things hickson definitely does better:
-Hickson is better at taking care of the ball and not committing turnovers
-Hickson is better at avoiding fouls and getting into foul trouble.
-Hickson and Amare are about even in skills of defensive rebounding (but amare is a significantly better offensive rebounder).
-Hickson is better at taking care of the ball and not committing turnovers
No. Hickson Career TOV% = 14.7, Stoudemire’s is 12.9.
by rockemsockem on Feb 15, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
you can use the career argument with amare and he is sooo much better right now than hickson, but he just isn’t (although I will admit he is probably better)
Amare is not playing at the same level he was 3-4 years ago. he wasn’t playing at that level last year either. Whereas his career TOV % is 12.9, it has been 14, and 13.6 the last 2 years. you cannot judge a product purely on history, but by trends. by history, maybe I should invest in AIG!
Also, to couple his increase in turnovers per 100 posessions, he is also seen a drop in usage. so he is used less, and turns the ball over more.
hickson’s turnover percentage this seaon is 13.3 that is better than amare has been. yes it was 16.8 last year, but he was a 20 year old rookie who was playing part of the season injured. it would not be using logical reasoning to try to weigh that season similarly to this season.
I don’t think I like this move.
Short Term:
- We have the best team in the NBA right now. In the LeBron era, I have never seen the Cavs play with so much fluidity and consistency on the offensive end.
- Stoudemire threatens this chemistry.
- Z’s outside threat is a real weapon when he is on the floor, pulling away the opponents’ big men.
- Who backs up Shaq?
Long Term:
- I think Hickson’s contributions will surpass Stoudemire in the next 2 years and certainly by the end of whatever contract the Cavs will give Stoudemire.
- Just as a fan, it will be sad to see Z suit up for another team, he has been the heart and soul of the Cavs for the last decade+. Assuming he ever suits up with the Suns.
In the end, this moves smacks of desperation. And I don’t think we should be desperate.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Seeing Z go has me reliving the Victor trade all over again.
by Chief WaDrew on Feb 14, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
I think I agree with this. I’ve never watched Stoudemire, to be honest. I’m really sad to see Z go, and it sucks about JJ too. I don’t think a trade was really necessary but idk…
Just as a fan, it will be sad to see Z suit up for another team, he has been the heart and soul of the Cavs for the last decade+. Assuming he ever suits up with the Suns.
I doubt Z suits up for anyone else. The main reason this trade is good for the Suns is that he’s willing to agree to a buy out. By trading Amare they’re basically giving up on this season, so there’s no way they want or need Z to play more than they need the millions they’d save in buying him out. Z then gets a 30 day vacation to rest and he’s back in time for when it really counts.
Who backs up Shaq?
Most likely Varejao and Amare will have minutes at Center while Shaq is on the bench until Z comes back.
I think Hickson’s contributions will surpass Stoudemire in the next 2 years and certainly by the end of whatever contract the Cavs will give Stoudemire.
It’s hard to predict the future and i like Hickson but we don’t know how much and at what speed he will progress. And we don’t know how much of his success is owed to the fact he plays on the best team with a lot of other options. Amare has proven his ability to be a powerhouse on offense even when he is the focus of the opposition’s D, imagine how good he’ll be when teams focus on Lebron and give him more room to operate. Realistically we will be happy if Hickson one day in the future like 5 years from now plays at the level Amare is at NOW. Keeping in mind Amare is still 27 and has been relatively injury free for 3 seasons. Basically, Amare is an all-star now…Hickson might be an all-star one day.
by CavsLebronFan on Feb 14, 2010 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
I realize that is the hope with Z. But Phoenix probably wants to at least get into the playoffs this year and if there is any chance that they think Z can help them do that, they will keep. A buyout is only a marginal savings.
Varejao and/or Amare at the 5 doesn’t excite me. We basically go from 4 solid bigs to 3 with this trade. And 2 7-footers to 1. This isn’t good for going against the Magic and Lakers.
My point is not as much what I think Hickson will become, but how fast Stoudemire might decline. He has the knee surgery in his past. And he relies almost exclusively on athletic ability. I keep thinking Jermaine O’Neal.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Yeah, this isn’t the sure thing that some people are making this out to be. On the surface adding a guy like Amare is a really big addition, but as you said we’re losing two frontcourt players and only getting one back. Our depth this season and ability to play a variety of lineups (two 7-footers at once against the Lakers, as an example) is really a big strength and I’m worried that this trade will hurt our depth. And what if we lose Amare after this season to free agency? Or what if we sign him to a big extension and he loses his health quickly, like you said? He may only be 27 but he’s an old 27 with a lot of miles on his body and many previous injuries.
Without a doubt, Amare is probably better right now than Hickson will ever become. But is having Amare much better than having Hickson and Z? I don’t know. This is what Ferry and the front office need to figure out and I hope they make the right decision.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 9:56 PM CST up reply actions
The Suns are barely hanging in the top 8 in the west, and other than their great start they’ve been ordinary, if they trade Amare i think they’ll tank the season and be happy to buy out Z.
by CavsLebronFan on Feb 14, 2010 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
Not a risk I want to take. Also, the the Suns are in the 7th seed right now, 3 games from the 9th place team in the west. Not “barely hanging in the top 8”.
The cash-strapped suns want to make the playoffs and get the revenue taht comes with it. even if it is fur a couple games.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Feb 15, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
at the same time, it is possible Z gets a buyout and comes back. I know it is not something to try to count on but its a thought.
-I agree stoudemire may threaten the team chemistry. at the same time, look at that team with him in and think about how teams will have to play the cavs.
-You have to double team lebron, he is lebron. you also have to put a guy on amare, and someone to watch mo on the wing. that leaves Shaq and Delonte (or whoever) somewhat unguarded. with amare, it would be nearly impossible to guard and contain the cavs. when 3 guys can beat you, it is just hard to guard. you have to account for mo, lebron AND amare.
remember in the playoffs when mo was ineffective? we were really bad. we need that second option to take pressure off of lebron. I am not saying mo will flake in the playoffs but having a 2nd option next to lebron besides mo will make the offense just ridiculous.
Long Term:
-you may be right about hickson’s contributions in some areas. however, I don’t think hickson will ever be the offensive player amare is. I think he could be very good, but never as good as amare IMO.
-To replace Z, there are other guys out there…Centers from the D-League/Free Agents to provide depth. I do like the range Z has had this year, but losing that won’t make or break the season.
The double team thing is a little overstated. Teams rarely double LeBron. It is just tough to double a non-post player in the NBA. And LeBron find the open guy- be it a shooter in the corner, or JJ or Andy or Shaq under the hoop. Those guys can catch a wide open pass and dunk it just as well as Amar’e.
The offense is ridiculous right now. It will not get more ridiculous from a trade, even if that trade equates more raw talent. It took this team about 40 games to get their offensive groove. I don’t want to waste weeks and months trying to get back to where we are now.
you may be right about hickson’s contributions in some areas. however, I don’t think hickson will ever be the offensive player amare is
I’m not saying Hickson will ever be as good as Amare right now. I’m saying that Hickson, in 2 or 3 years will be better than Stoudemire in 2 or 3 years. Hickson projects to be a very very good power forward. I’m saying Stoudemire is the type of player that will decline very quickly given the games he has played, his style of play, his weaknesses, and his injury history.
Nobody in the Dleague is 7’3, can shoot 40% from 3, 80% from the line, be the heart and soul of the team, have a +/- of around 10 in over 20 minutes a game, be an enforcer on defense. Z is a two time All Star. Don’t underrate his contributions to this team.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Feb 15, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Nobody in the Dleague is 7’3, can shoot 40% from 3, 80% from the line, be the heart and soul of the team, have a +/- of around 10 in over 20 minutes a game, be an enforcer on defense. Z is a two time All Star. Don’t underrate his contributions to this team.
No one in the NBA can do that.
by rockemsockem on Feb 15, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
Ryan. I do agree with you. I do think hickson could be very good, and at the same time, we can not be sure if he will be as good as Amare offensively. personally I guess I don’t think so, even though I think he could develop into a very good player. we are talking about a 21 year old raw player in his first full healthy season in the NBA. IMO it is still too early to set anything in stone about him.
I do have those concerns that amare might be declining fast. I really honestly am on the fence about this trade, on one hand, he is a dangerous weapon, on the other hand, i have noticed the downward trend.
Also, my point with amare and the double teams is pointing out how even more difficult the offense would be to guard. The offense is pretty ridiculous but Amare could up the pace a bit.
I am not trying to underrate Zs contributions. He would be a huge loss to the team and I do like him as a player. I am saying that worst case scenario that there are guys who are solid bodies in the D-League/Free Agents right now. I will never say any of them are as good as Z. I do think that it will hurt a bit if Z doesn’t get a buyout, but at the same time (like I said) losing him I believe won’t make or break the season IF we get an adequate replacement. I still think it hurts and I would not like to see him go, but it is not like he is completely indespensible.
Wow
Hello, Suns fan here.
We all hate this trade but, we think that it is crap, that Kerr is not that stupid to trade Amare for the last pick in the draft and JJ Hickson. Sure, Amare is one of the worst PF defenders in the league, sure he can get more rebounds, sure he has a big ego but I would not trade him for garbage. This is one of the reasons I believe this trade is total BS and nothing is happening
1. It was reported by ESPN and only ESPN no other big name, ESPN is always full of shit, the said “Amare Stoudemire is ruining the chemistry of the Suns” in which Suns coach Alvin Gentry replied “That is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard”. Amare and his teammates denied it also while ESPN reporter Chad Ford responded “Well, I got it from a source in New York”. Yet clearly in his article he said his source was from Phoenix..hmmm
2. There are no articles what-so-ever from Phoenix about this. Wouldn’t you think that with all this going on a big Phoenix writer would have something to say about this? Only ESPN has reported this.
3. Danny Ferry and Steve Kerr are close friends. They regularly go to lunch together, yes a trade was probably discussed as Cav and Suns owners were there but it’s nothing to say “OMG AMARE STOUDEMIRE IS ALMOST A CAV!!!”
4. This trade doesn’t work in the trade machine. The Cavaliers would acquire to much salary, a thrid team was rumored by blogs yet no big name reported this.
5. Yahoo! Sports reported that the Suns and Stoudemire are negotiating a contract extension during all-star weekend. So why do they want to keep him, and trade him at the same time?
6. This is All-Star weekend. When C grade reporters stir up stories like this, everyone will read them. The do this right before the All-Star game. This is called….All-Star Weekend Buzz, they do this because at this time alot of people will read their articles which means more $$$
7. Really Hickson, last pick and 11million contract Big Z is a much worst trade then Miami’s
Beasley > Hickson
O’Neal’s Contract > Big Z’s contract
Miami’s first rounder(15-19) > Cleavlands first rounder(29-30)
So no reason to think it’s a done deal
Buy a clue
From what i’ve seen Miami doesn’t want to give up Beasley. Also, it’s bonehead fans like you that think the Suns are contenders. The Suns season is over whether they make a trade or not.
They have ZERO chance to do anything this year or next year. Nuggets, Mavericks, Jazz, Lakers, Blazers (when healthy) are all better teams and Oklahoma City is about to pass you by.
You have zero chance of keeping Amare and you would be lucky to get Hickson or anything anyone would give since Amare is gone no matter what.
Go back to your Suns board with your loser fans your team sucks face facts. Better take what you can get. You know nothing about JJ so, don’t comment on him negatively.
Haha
JJ Hickson is a role player at best. I know the Suns suck I also know that the cavs would be 600% record if they were in the West because the East is really weak. JJ Can’t shoot or dunk. Your team would suck really bad without James. James would make the Nets a winner.
That argument holds no water. The Cavs have the best record against the West the last 2 years so, that’s dumb to say the Cavs would suck in the West.
Every team would be bad if you took for their best player. What’s your point?
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
My point is LeBron would make every team better. When the Suns trade Amare they will probably lose 5-10 more games. If the Cavs lose James they will lose 20-30 more games, I’m saying that it’s not the Cleveland Cavaliers, it is the Cleveland LeBrons.
Yes, LeBron is the best player in the NBA. That’s obvious. But saying he’s the entire team is very ignorant and entirely unfair to the rest of the team.
We appreciate your input from a Suns perspective but there is no need to start bashing the Cavs. Just because CAVS R BOSS is being an idiot to you doesn’t mean that you need to respond that way as well.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
You’re right sorry i just am tired of everyone slamming the Browns, Cavs, Buckeyes when they have no clue what they are talking about.
He wasn’t slamming the Cavs. And you seem to have no clue what you’re talking about.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Saying “your team sucks” and “go back to your loser fans” is not appropriate at all.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Sadly, he already has. I thought about responding describing the big upside to JJ, and his huge potential, based on the glimpses we’ve seen this season, that non-Cavs fans are probably missing, but there’s no use at this point.
we are also talking about a guy who was extremely raw going into college, only spent one year there and then was drafted, when drafted, he didn’t play much the first half of his first season and when he started to get playing time, he started to get injured. he is now healthy and truly improving. he is already more than a role player.
Don’t be an idiot. You’re making the rest of us Cavs fans look bad.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Brian Windhorst at the Cleveland Plain Dealer is also reporting that the Cavs are talking to the Suns about Amare so I think this story is legitimate.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
Sigh....
1) It was also reported by Brian Windhorst, the Cavaliers PD beat reporter. Windhorst is the best reporter out there in NBA land.
2) Your point at #2 was the same as #1, so nice padding.
3) Your “nothing to say” is trumped by my sources.
4) Acquire too much salary? Are you aware that Z’s contract is 8 figures, and that we are willing to pay the luxury tax for the overages? Also, how do you think we got Shaq?
5) It’s called a sign-and-trade. Look it up, it might be helpful to you.
6) Yes, trade rumors always happen at All-Star weekend. But it’s not to boost c-grade reporters…it’s because THE TRADE DEADLINE HAPPENS AROUND ALL STAR BREAK!
7) You’re unloading salary in this trade, so quit looking at “better deals”. Steve Kerr wants to release funds for the big free agency mill this summer.
But you tried hard, and you failed. The lesson is…never try.
The Buckeye Battle Cry
SB Nation's official Ohio State blog
by Jeff at the BBC on Feb 14, 2010 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
No. He’s not gone.
There is a rumor that we are close to a deal. That is all.
No deal has been made, and may never be made.
Oh, I know it’s a rumor that we’re close to the deal. I’m saying the thought of Z going makes me sad because he is kind of like what Victor was to the Indians.
Oh, I see. I agree 110 percent, I honestly wear my authentic number 11 Ilgauskas to every Cavs game I go to. He’s been my favorite basketball player for years now.
I don’t have a Cavs jersey, but if LeBron stays (which I think he will) I’m going to buy a jersey. The last Cleveland jersey I got was Quinn’s, so I’m always hesitant about that now haha.
ESPN says that Phoenix is talking to other teams to see what other offers they can get for Amare. They’d like to get Iguodala from Philly and they’re trying to see if they can work that out.
Also, they said Amare would like to be in Miami (he’s from there) but they don’t have the assets to get him so they’d have to work a 3-team deal.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 14, 2010 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Seriously, how these guys will miss JJ’s 7 PPG and 4 RPG is beyond me. How can we be so enamored with JJ’s last 6 games? Ever hear of small sample sizes?
JJ’s per minute averages aren’t anything special either — below league average PER for one metric.
This is a Gasol to the Lakers level trade, and we have doubts.
mhm
you gotta like it when you get by far the best player in the trade, which amare is by far, with all due respect to hickson
by beantownboy171 on Feb 15, 2010 12:17 AM CST up reply actions
You should be terrified anyhow....
with that collection of has-beens on the Celtics
I'm Polish...what's your excuse?
Windhorst has more info about the talks. He says the Cavs have a few other offers on the table so they’re pressing the Suns to make a decision now so if they don’t do something with them they can move on to something else. They’re also still deciding if they want to make a trade or stand pat.
He makes an interesting point about leadership
How will Hickson feel if the trade DOESN’T happen, and he’s been listening to how LeBron supported trading him for Amare?
I suspect that every NBA player knows that it is a businees first.
JJ is young and has been hearing this talk for several weeks now. His play has gotten even better. I’m sure he will be happy to stay but also sees an opportunity for more minutes and an even larger role with another team.
If most of the fans are like me then they sense a " family first’ sort of feeling with this team. It is difficult to see a famil split up. But I keep thinking of next year. Shaq and Z could retire. Delonte still has legal issues. LeBron could be gone ( doubtful in my opinion). So I leave it to Ferry to make sure I have a team next year as well as have a contender this year..
No matter what happens I think LeBron is enough of a leader to get everyone on board for a major run at the Title, this year.
Winning is not everything but it sure feels like it sometimes
by lifelongvike on Feb 15, 2010 8:01 AM CST up reply actions
Now then, Imagine this:
Sixers get:
Wally Sczekrhjrzwrwrbiak (signed to about $16 million expiring)
Anthony Parker
Leon Powe
2012 draft pick
Christian Eyenga
Cavs get:
Samuel Delembert
Andre Iguodala
Make a trade like this happen and you cut the legs out from under the suns favorite trade option, and force them to turn to us (oh and bend the sixers over for iggy and that depth we want at C) In the meantime you don’t make the trade with the suns now or they will have Z’s contract which could give them the parts they need to swing an iggy trade instead of us.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I love this trade. Much more than any involving Stoudemire. Don’t think its enough for Igoudala and Delember though.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Feb 15, 2010 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Parker has a better defensive rating, offensive rating, TS%, and efg. How do you love this trade and hate Stoudemire?
Than who? Iguodala? Parker’s numbers are skewed by playing with LeBron. He is asked to do absolutely nothing on offense except spot up and shoot.
Iguodala has way way way better PER, rebounding %, assist %, steal %, block %, etc.
In the end, while the numbers you cite are down a little for Iguodala this year, he is a much better player than Parker. jaws’ trade would upgrade the cavs at the 2 and the 5. The Stoudemire trade would upgrade the 4, but downgrade the 5 position.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Parker’s played with Lebron this one season.
by rockemsockem on Feb 15, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
a lot of the reason they have him spot up and shoot is b/c it works with the offense and it is the role of the 2 in this offense brown runs. the 2 guards spot up most of the time, and lebron drives and either takes a shot, or dishes it out to them for an open look. His role and style fits what is needed well.
Iggy on the other hand plays offense similar to lebron in some ways. iggy prefers to drive to the hoop. he isn’t a great shooter, and isn’t at all a threat from deep. he doesn’t take many shots there and thats a good thing. he is now shooting more 3s per game than he has ever shot and his # is not at all good compared to before. he should not be relied upon from deep and this year has been a streaky scorer from everywhere else.
what iggy does do is rebound well and dish the ball out. don’t we already have a guy who does both well?? don’t we have a guy that attacks the basket?
I do like iguoddala and I do think he is better than parker. I just don’t know how he fits into the cavs system. Amare I do see fitting more (except fitting with shaq) but Iguodala I don’t know how i see him fitting. He just doen’t feel like he will fit well into the offensive system/
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