Cavaliers now prefer Antawn Jamison to Amare Stoudemire??

1st: yes, he doesn’t have as many years left as Amar’e, but I would think injuries are a MUCH bigger concern with stoudemire, he’s already had two career threatening injuries.

2nd: a stretch 4 is not a soft 4. its a 4 that can shoot. and i don’t know who you’ve been watching but amar’e is notorious for not banging around the basket, thats why the suns brought in shaq. stoudemire is a great offensive player in a run-out, but jamison is a superior scorer in a half court set. guess which one the cavs do more.

3rd: jamison can do the pick and roll. the reason amar’e looks so good doing it is steve nash. Also, Ilgauskas seems to have lost a bit of his shooting touch this year and can’t play big minutes, so having jamison would be a big addition.

4th: not saying you’re wrong, but what stats are you using? I also don’t think amar’e has the personality to play defense, he obviously didn’t like doing it during the suns’s brief change in philosophy and he’s done plenty to show he’s a selfish player (complaining about touches on offense and so forth).

5th: last year we all thought the cavs had enough. I also don’t get why you think Jamison doesn’t have at least 2-3 years left, its not like his play has been declining that noticeably lately. I also don’t think Stoudemire is nearly as talented as he looks playing in the suns offense next to steve nash. that inflates his scoring as well as rebounding.

6th: he’s a better fit in more than one way. Not only is he better in the locker room, he’s better in terms of how the team plays. he plays defense, he works hard, and he’s played in a halfcourt offense. everything amar’e has ever done has been in the 7 seconds offense.

Lastly: you’re right it certainly does sound odd. especially because we already had a player like that, his name was larry hughes, and that certainly worked out well.

First: I totally agree which is why i WOULD NOT give up hickson for him. I am also wary about giving up hickson for Jamison b/c jamison has been on the decline the last couple of years and has been injury prone.

2nd: I would not call jamison soft at all. he can post up and rebound when need be, he just has more range than your average 4. granted he isn’t an elite post up guy but he definitely is still pretty good.

3rd: antwan jamison runs the pick and roll very well. he does many things well that illgauskas honestly cannot do anymore.

4th: truly where are you getting your stats? if you are going career, maybe (TO %) but that is a very arbitrary stat. you have to look at trends. in trends amare has gotten more turnover prone, especially the last 2 seasons. compared to last season (where he was injured AND a 19 y.o. rookie) hickson is vastly improved at handling the ball. Jamison is also on a trend downward in D. he has always had a goofy run and gun offense in Phoenix but he was still a great defender 3 years ago. he is nowhere near the defender he was honestly, since d’antoni left. he is a liability on D COMPARED to how he played in a run and gun.

5th: Jamison still has a good amount in his legs. Which looks better to you:

-We trade a 30 YO bench player who has a shaky, inconsistent shot and has reached his peak. and we trade away a 35 year old center who is very close to retirement and doesn’t have much in his legs….For, a 6’9 Forward who only might have 1-2 years left at an elite level, is 33, and can still stretch the floor and rebound, doesn’t play great D…AND we get a 3 year old guard with an expiring contract who we can cut or agree to a buyout.

-OR we trade a 35 year old center with not much left, and a 21 year old Forward, in his first full season in the NBA, who is still raw, and is just scratching the surface of his potential…For a 27 year old who has had multiple injuries and seems to be on the decline. he is an elite player, but his blocks and steals have been slipping while his turnovers have gone up. his FT and FG% have gone down, and his turnovers have gone up. he is a great player but not the player he was 3 years ago and is on an increasingly rapid downward trend.

6th: I don’t think either one is that much more of a “fit” for the team. however, the one thing about amare is that he did not play that well with Z last year. this could end up being a problem and maybe why many people think Jamison is a better “fit”

Lastly:

Ok this might sound odd but I think the last thing LeBron needs is another guy kow-towing to him. I think the cavs would ultimately benefit from another on-court personality competing with LeBron

If Stoudemire came to town I think LeBron would benefit from seeing a guy who was competitve, confident, talented, and who wanted the ball in his hands in the clutch just as much as LeBron. It sure would make late game plays in the playoffs a tiny bit less predictable

My question is, how is Jamison not a guy who wants it in the clutch and Amare is? I just don’t understand it. he needs someone whether it is amare OR jamison.

Final thought: For me, i do prefer Stoudemire slightly. the thing about this deal that makes me much less hesitant though is that we don’t have to give up hickson. we get slightly less, but we give up much less. the O.C. of the decision is much lower to it is a better decision to make

JJ could help a team like the Suns, who need a young athlete who can run the floor and not cost them much. On a team that has LeBron James and is looking to make a serious title run, he should be spending the majority of the game on the bench, playing 7th fiddle at the very best. It’s time we got LeBron at least ONE elite player on which he can depend as much as everyone else depends on him.

It has been reported that Amare and Shaq do not gel very well on the court.

…and the mis-perception still charges through all the facts and truth!

you read Krolik too, I see.

Cavs are 4-0 against last year Finalists.

It must have taken a guy like you a lot to bring that up. I mean, most LA and Orlando fans are trying to convince themselves that regular season games vs. elite opponents mean nothing. (I see those comments frequently.) Hell, even Van Gundy is in denial.

who knew about the NBA before LebRon James

Cleveland fans have been here since the our expansion. Mark Price, “The Shot” on Ehlo, Shawn Kemp, later… Miller, Boozer.
The real fans have been through it all, and will continue to.

I know I am a troll

And yes, I agree, you’re still a troll.

The implication that all Cavs fans only started following the team when LeBron was drafted is very insulting and full of ignorance. But, I wouldn’t expect anything else from you based on your previous posts.

I’ve bashed you in the past but you actually make a good point, and if there is no trade the Cavs WILL be just fine…And I’m not insulted by the..LeBron remark because I HAVE been a Cavs fan since before their first playoff appearance in 1976

Last year all we heard was how “cruddy” we were since we couldn’t beat the elite teams and had an awesome overall record.

This year we have an awesome record, and are beating the elite teams, and now everyone says it doesn’t matter because the playoffs are a different animal.

Do we need to make a trade for this season? Probably not, although we still could be upset in the playoffs. But if we make this deal, not only are we set for this season, but for the next 2-3 as well (provided LeBron re-ups of course).

And yes, another fan who predates LeBron. I remember World B Free as a youth, and was a diehard through the Price, Daugherty, Nance, Hot Rod, Sanders. Ehlo years.

Verajao becomes our backup center, not PF. this also allows us to go with a lot of different combinations up front. A 32nd overall draft pick isn’t worth much, and i’m willing to bet there is more to the deal than hickson and Z, every place i’ve seen the rumor said it was likely a pick or another young player was involved.

Kenny Smith mentioned this on a Yahoo! video recently. Despite being against trading for Amare since the beginning, I really don’t buy that. I think he’s a legitimate 20+ ppg forward, and would probably benefit from the “LeBron factor” in Cleveland. I didn’t like the price we were paying for him however, based on how good we’ve been so far, mainly against top 5 opponents. Good chemistry in basketball can be like a house of cards. But I would never understate Amare’s offensive ability.

I do agree in a little of the nash factor, but he is legit too.

Jamison has never had that Nash factor with a guy he played with.

I do like some thing about amare, but I feel he is on a downward trend and going down quicker.

One reason we were supposedly going afer troy murphy is b/c he could stretch the floor. he can stretch the floor like murphy with his jump shots and plays much more physical too when need be (and can post up well). he is somewhere in between Murphy and Stoudamire. He is can play the pick and post up good like stoudamire (but not AS good) and he can stretch the floor with his shooting. Plus he is tough (something murphy isn’t), very athletic, and is maybe the best defensive player out of the 3 (even though none are anything special)

I’m dumb.

the reason is for the deal is set ourselves up fro next season as well.

I just found Hollinger’s comments on Mike James:

2008-09 season: James flamed out as the backup point guard in New Orleans, but the Wizards picked him up midseason when they decided they didn’t have enough selfish chuckers on the team. James actually started 50 games, which was about 49 higher than the over-under on the rest of his career before the trade, and in doing so pretty much removed any doubt that he’s finished as an NBA rotation player.

In addition to the usual savage beatings he took at the defensive end, James again struggled to make shots. For a shoot-first point guard, this is a big problem. Actually, his jump shot was reasonably good — he made 37.5 percent of his 3s and 44.2 percent of his long 2s. However, he couldn’t score in the paint and he couldn’t draw fouls, but he kept trying anyway. James rated 60th among point guards in free-throw attempts per field goal attempt and hit a meager 35.7 percent on inside shots — where more than a third of his attempts originated.

Scouting report: A shoot-first guard who loves to shoot high-arcing pull-up jumpers, especially going left, James will often force the issue and take bad shots early in the clock. He doesn’t see the floor particularly well but takes decent care of the ball.

James defended reasonably well in his younger days but is now routinely beaten off the dribble by fast players and slow ones alike. At times it’s hard to tell how much he’s slipped because he so rarely is allowed to guard anyone with any skill whatsoever.

2009-10 outlook: James has one year left on his contract guaranteed for $6.46 million — thank you, Kevin McHale! — and figures to spend it at the end of the Wizards bench. Don’t be surprised if he’s bought out at the trade deadline if his expiring deal can’t be used in a trade. Be very surprised if he starts 50 games again. Or even one.

Or, what about Amare and Jamison for Bosh…LOL, now I’m going nuts. Should quit while I’m ahead!

Yeah, I was worried about including Moon in a deal at first because he plays a valuable role on this team but the improvement of Jawad Williams has made Moon expendable. Not that I want to give him up, of course, but it wouldn’t be too big of a hit to our rotation with Jawad playing as well as he is now.

I don’t think moon is nearly as valuable as jawad. moon is an inconsistent player with a bad shot. he is not a shooter at all and although that might not matter, he doesn’t really provide much on the offensive end. on defense he is long, and athletic but at the same time often too aggressive. he commits more fouls than he should considering his position and playing time. He often tries too hard to block a shot (and tries it too often) which, when he doesn’t either leads to an easier shot or a foul.

Jawad is also a fair amount younger and has more room to grow and has a higher ceiling. Moon on the other hand is basically at his ceiling now…

I do agree that moon has some value but I would much rather have Jawad than moon.