Suns' Amar'e Stoudemire: It's great to be wanted
The most-likely Suns trade scenario remains a deal with Cleveland for power forward J.J. Hickson, center Zydrunas Ilgauskas, swingman Danny Green and a first-round draft pick. Ilgauskas could be bought out to get the Suns under the luxury-tax threshold or traded again. Miami is the next-strongest suitor, but a third team would have to get involved because the Suns are not interested in the Heat's offers, even ones that include Michael Beasley or Jermaine O'Neal's massive expiring contract.
5 months ago
John Bena (aka CavsBlogger)
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It seems like the Suns are willing to string us along until the last possible moment.
I wish we’d give them an ultimatum. Tell them, either take the offer in 3 hours, or we’re moving along and looking elsewhere. And no bluff, if they can’t decide we either do different trade or make no moves. Simple.
What’s the benefit in that? As long as the offer doesn’t change, make the deal. Who cares if it takes up until the deadline?
by rockemsockem on Feb 17, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Contrary to what you hear from suns fans, John Kerr isn’t retarded. He knows Danny ferry and almost every intelligent cavs fan is drooling all over the floor at the thought of Amar’e joining this team. He knows his guy is worth the wait.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I think you mean Steve Kerr.
"Nobody ever thinks, 'Hey, maybe I’m actually an idiot.'" - Jay
by woodsmeister on Feb 17, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
Who's John Kerr?
You mean Steve Kerr? And yes he is retarded. Loved him when he played for the Cavs but, he’s not a good GM at all. He’s trying to play games with good GM’s and he’s going to get burned and end up losing Amare for nothing when he walks this summer.
He needs to deal Amare more than the Cavs or even the Heat need to trade for him. Cavs should tell him to get bent and go on to Jamison and watch Kerr get nothing for him. Cavs can’t wait while Kerr plays around and miss on Jamison or someone else they can get and at a better price than Amare.
Let’s not be calling other GM’s retarded, please.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Steve* Kerr knows that Jamison is a big dropoff from the kind of skills Stoudemire has. Yes the Suns owner wants to cut payroll and save some money, but if they don’t get a good deal for him, it is conceivable they could keep him through the deadline and try and get him to resign in phoenix. That isn’t a bad option for them basketball wise, its just more costly financially.
I’m starting to think that it wouldn’t be bad if we were to take Jason Richardson, the suns would be willing to give him away, he could probably help us this year given limited minutes and then he could give us a ton more options this summer or next year at the deadline. His 14.4 million expiring contract (next year) could match salaries in a sign&trade (D wade in a cavs uni??) this summer or become a valuable trade chip next year at the deadline.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
I think the Cavs are fine to wait. Getting Amare for nothing but Hickson is pretty sweet. It’s the Gasol trade all over again.
It’s amazing how many people fail to realize this. As a collective, I think Cavs fans are vastly overrating Hickson.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 17, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
It’s more than just Hickson. The risk of losing Z could hurt us tremendously, the team chemistry is fantastic and took a while to reach the point it is now, we’ve got the best record in the NBA. Plus Hickson has been playing great on top of all that.
There’s a lot of reasons to be against the trade.
what are the chances Z isn’t bought out? one-in-twenty? this is the only forum i’ve seen people getting worked up about something that’s so improbable
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Feb 17, 2010 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly. Hickson is a nice player, but he’s not nearly as good as Stoudemire is. Also all reports are that Z are coming back. So Hickson, plus a late round draft pick for a great player is a no-brainer. But it seems that a lot people (I’m looking at you Terry Pluto) are over thinking this.
But it’s not a guarentee that Z is coming back. Everyone assumes this will happen but we can’t be certain, and if we lose Z that really hurts our depth.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
just call Z’s return as a “between the lines” agreement. The cavs wouldn’t do the deal if they didn’t know that the suns would be glad to buy him out and save another 1-2 million of real money.
"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."
Except that if such an agreement did exist and the NBA found out about it — or even had a suspicion that it existed — the Cavs could be in big trouble.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
exactly
For anyone doubting this, just Google “Joe Smith+Timberwolves” a different type of situation but none the less an illustration of how serious the NBA is about
“wink, wink-nod, nod” agreements where player contracts are concerned
by cavslandrocks on Feb 17, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
You can’t have that as part of the deal but, i heard you can ask the team you are trading to if they plan on cutting that person. So, it’s basically the loophole.
Side deals in the NBA are FORBIDDEN
don’t know where you “heard” that but the League investigates anything they think is fishy concerning contracts
by cavslandrocks on Feb 17, 2010 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
once again, WHY would the suns not buy out Z? assuming they’re rational, what is the advantage of keeping him around?
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Feb 17, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
They are not losing Z in this deal. Every report says the Suns will cut him and he will most likely be back in Cleveland in 30 days. The teams can’t come right out and say it because it’s against the rules. But he’ll be back.
Well, we all know that reports from the media are never wrong . . .
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Who said that? Your opposition to this trade seems to be based on Z not coming back to Cleveland. I’m telling you that he most likely is coming back. It is the most likely scenario. Is it 100%, no, but it’s close to that.
The Gasol trade all over again, but with the Cavs and LeBron instead of the Lakers and Kobe. And you don’t want it to happen.
i would like to hear why the suns wouldn’t buy Z out. how would it be to their advantage?
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Feb 17, 2010 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Right, it wouldn’t be. And it’s not going to happen. What’s going on is people are greatly overestimating how good JJ Hickson is.This isn’t surprising. Fans in general overrate their own players, it’s the nature of being a fan.
They should make the deal.
As I told you many, many times, it’s about more than just Hickson. I know he’s never going to be a star, but it’s about who fits better with this Cavs team.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Look, they have months left in the season to figure out how to best use Amare. You sound just like those people who said that Shaq wouldn’t fit with the Cavs. That’s turned out pretty well. They have a chance to add a superstar to the team, giving up a role player and you don’t want to do it. I’m glad you are not the GM.
As I said below, Shaq and Amare are in different situations. Shaq knows he’s on the down side of his career and is content to be a role player.
Maybe you should apply for GM positions since you obviously know so much about basketball. I will defer to your expertise from now on.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 3:08 PM CST up reply actions
I love how Hickson no longer has any holes in his game, but every one of Amare’s supposed holes are magnified.
I don’t remember anyone saying that Hickson had no holes in his game.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 4:48 PM CST up reply actions
No, but that’s what it seems like is going on. All I hear is about how Amare isn’t a good defender, but I don’t hear anything at all about Hickson’s flaws.
Of course Hickson has flaws. He’s not a great player. But, here’s the thing — we know that the Cavs are already a great team with him. We know how he fits in to this team. We don’t know how Amare will fit in to this team. We don’t know how his defensive shortcomings will affect the Cavs.
Again, this isn’t a fantasy team. It’s about how the players fit together.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 4:59 PM CST up reply actions
Turk, the hesitation isn’t about comparing Hickson to Stoudamire. Of course Stoudamire is a better player right now, but is he a better fit to this Cavs team? That’s the question. I hear a lot of doubt about that from people who know a heck of a lot more about basketball than I do. I was just listening to a podcast by Brian Windhorst and he expressed doubt about how Amare would fit with the Cavs. With the Cavs he would be at best the #3 scoring option, and would a guy who’s 27 and about to hit the free agent market be willing to give up shots and see his stats go down? Shaq himself said when he came to Cleveland that he had no problem taking a reduced role because he’s 37 but he would NOT have done that if he was 27. So that’s certainly a concern.
Also, Amare is bad defensively and this Cavs team is built on defense. Windhorst said that if Amare was with the Cavs he’d probably lose playing time at the end of games to Varejao for defensive puproses. Again, would he be happy with that or not? I don’t pretend to know the answer. But I certainly hope Danny Ferry does.
The point is that this isn’t fantasy basketball, and you can’t just plug in Amare for 20 points and 10 rebounds every night on a new team. The Cavs are playing extremely well right now and while it’s great to want to get better what if the move backfires? We’re already 4-0 against the Lakers and Magic so far which is much better than we were last year, so this isn’t like last year. I’m not saying that this isn’t a good move, just that it’s not as obvious as some people are making it out to be and I hope Ferry knows what he’s doing.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
This Amare is bad at defense thing is sort of BS. He plays for a team that’s never emphasized defense. We heard the same thing about Mo Williams. I’m sure he has the physical tools to be a good defensive player.
Many, many players have the physical tools to be good defensive players but never become one. You can’t just snap your fingers and make someone a good defender.
But, again, you’re the expert, obviously.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
We all know the potential upside of these deals…here is the potential downside of the Stoudemire deal
The Cavs give up 1)JJ Hickson..2)Danny Green…3) Ilgauskas [temporarily]…4) a 1st round pick
and those are just the given losses..Let’s start with the draft pick..It can’t be 2010 since every team HAS to have one pick every year thanks to the late Ted Stepien…so it would be the 2011 pick (a guard rich draft) or later…
Now for the tangent possibilites…1) Z doesn’t come back/retires after this year ..2) Shaq leaves/retires after this year…3) Stoudemire plays out the year and leaves via free agency…4) Lebron leaves
Add it all up and you have a 7-8 seed for years to come…Even with LeBron remaining in CLE after this year, IF all of the others happen The Cavs become the Hawks in terms of championship potential…IF PHX can get Amar`e signed before the Cavs acquire him, it would help..but still the potential downside is far greater than the positive
If Z, Shaq, Lebron all leave, you aren’t going to really care that the Cavs have Hickson and Danny Green plus whoever they draft. That is still a crappy team. As long as they can keep Lebron none of the others matter. This is about winning it all this year. Amare helps that cause.
NO IT IS NOT
ALL about winning it all this year..Just in case you haven’t been paying attention, THIS team is a team that was built for now AND the future..ANYONE, and I do mean anyone who would sell the future of a team for one year of glory is NOT a true fan..they are at best a front runner..Sorry if you disagree but it is my opinion, and I stand by it…saying that ANY player will NEVER reach X goal or doesn’t matter to a team is just plain ignorant
Give them Darnell and keep Green PLUS have Stoudemire signed for AT LEAST next year and it becomes a little better since the Cavs will probably use this (2010) years pick for a center
by cavslandrocks on Feb 17, 2010 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
IF the Cavs lose LeBron, every forward currently under contract will be of consequence to the team….
You’re getting a little too invested in this…I was merely laying out the POSSIBLE negatives of the deal as outlined in the post
by cavslandrocks on Feb 17, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
Um, no. If the Cavs lose Lebron we aren’t going to care that we have a role player like JJ Hickson. Not one bit.
WE?
Having been a Cavs fan since shortly after their inception (games at the old Arena, first game at the coliseum, The “miracle year” playoffs,etc.) you don’t speak for me or the many others who also want a competitive team in future years …Like I said you’re too invested in this to be objective…to the point of sounding like you actually help make the decisions for the Cavs…It’s a GAME not life or death
by cavslandrocks on Feb 17, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions
ok…again the cavs can trade the 2010 first round pick. they drafted Eyenga in 2009 and still have the 2011 first round pick.
2009 has NOTHING to do with it…the rule is about future picks not past…and since the Cavs have only their first rounder in 2010, they can surely use it in a trade on draft day if they so choose…I suggest that you read up on the James Worthy rule/Ted Stepien rule.
The Cavs AT THE LEAST would be foolish to trade their 2010 pick with four projected first pick CENTERS in that draft, and none in 2011
by cavslandrocks on Feb 17, 2010 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
they NEED a center…surely you at least agree with that…look at the next two years upcoming draft projections and tell me which year’s pick YOU would trade
by cavslandrocks on Feb 17, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
one last thought
before I go….
There are four supposedly “can’t miss” centers in the 2010 draft two are projected to go late in the first first round-in the last 5-6 picks…Stoudemire isn’t going to play center if they lose both Z and Shaq…Do you really want Andy as the only option at center-or Darnell…..or will you be back to the Indians and Browns blogs because the Cavs are no longer the “it team” in Cleveland?
by cavslandrocks on Feb 17, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
The last pick in the first round isn’t very valuable. Players picked at that spot rarely turn out to be good players, so I wouldn’t worry about trading that pick.
Besides, right now we have no idea where anyone is going in the draft so your “projections” are meaningless.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 4:52 PM CST up reply actions
and that all teams must have one pick in a draft…IF I read it correctly
by cavslandrocks on Feb 17, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure there have been many instances where an NBA team hasn’t had a pick in the draft. There are only two rounds, after all.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
For example, just last season Atlanta and Denver traded both of their picks.
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 17, 2010 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
Need to trade with Washington
The deal the Cavs can supposedly make with Washington sounds pretty good to me i’ll take that over the Amare deal.
washington has been pounding jamison to the tune of 40+ minutes a nite. his knees and back have been hurt this year and his scoring has dropped off the last month. he is 33 years old. you watched any games of the celtics recently and seen garnett? you want to have jamison limping around like garnett or wally for the the next two and a half years? i would only take jamison if we kept hickson and the 1st rounder.
What if the Lakers had decided that Kwame Brown, James Crittendon and 2 1st round picks were too mucto give up for Gasol?
We are looking at the same situation here, but have to give up even less. I can’t believe people are actually against this.
i’m with you dude. people are wayyyy overthinking this one.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Feb 17, 2010 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
There was no real chance of Kobe walking away
and they had Bynum as a younger forward/center.
We don’t have that luxury. We are an old team and we’d be trading the only talented youth we have at the forward position.
by Hardcore Legend on Feb 17, 2010 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, i saw that on Windhorst’s Twitter. I tried to look on Washington Post website but, you need to be registered i guesss.
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