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Around SBN: MLB Trade Deadline: Where each team stands right now

Why Danny Ferry is the League's Best GM

First of all.  I just have to say how much the jamison trade was just brilliant.  we gave up almost nothing for him.  we did give up Z but there is still a decent shot Z signs back with us.

I have decided to go over the trades over the last couple years and seriously look at how this team has changed.  First though we have to look at the roster that made it to the finals.  This roster had such names as Damon Jones, Scott Pollard, Donyell Marshall, Ira Newble, and Larry Hughes.  Many of these guys were guys Ferry got but did not work out.  We got to the Finals but got destroyed.  I think that loss in a way was key.  It seemed to have changed Ferry.  He took a much more active role in forming the team.  Instead of just going after a few free agents, he tried to get players that fit Mike Browns system and would complement Lebron.  He learned from his mistakes like Donyell and Hughes and tried to truly build a championship team.

Lets Zoom to late February 2008.  The team is struggling and many guys Ferry had acquired in Free agency such as Damon Jones (but I still love to call him Amon Ones) and Donyell Marshall, were struggling.  Ferry felt like he needed to do something, so he pulled off a trade.  This is what he traded:

-We give up Donyell, Ira Newble, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, Shannon Brown, Cedric Simmons, and in return we get Wally Z, Ben Wallace, Delonte West, Joe Smith, and a 2009 Draft pick which we used on Danny Green.

Star-divide

This trade is just ridiculous looking back.  Donyell at the time was averaging less than 4 points and 3 rebounds.  Larry Hughes was a big problem and Gooden just wasn't doing it anymore.  Gooden would look like a superstar one game and then a scrub the next, you just never knew what you would get.  Larry Hughes was way too passive as a player and refused to drive, but was really the only player out of the first batch of free agents that really bought into the defensive.  What we got in this trade was great.  We got a defensive presense in the post in Ben Wallace which we needed, we got a lights out 3 point shooter in Wally (when he got acclimated) and we got Delonte who has been a great addition and was always underrated his whole career.  Delonte can pass it, is very active on defense, and can shoot the 3; basically he is a perfect fit for the Mike Brown system and a great complement to lebron.  We also got the draft pick that got Danny Green who has been a pleasant surprise.  Joe Smith was a very nice addition as a veteran.  Smith was a solid defender, and was a great veteran presence.

Not Satisfied, Danny ferry looked to a trade again.  He was disappointed in the close losses during the Boston Series that went 7 games.  there is a glaring hole on this team: 3 point shooting and a good scorer in the backcourt.  Daniel Gibson and Delonte West were nice players, but the Cavs did not have that dominant scorer in the backcourt that could take pressure off of LeBron and maybe turn the tide in that series.  In come the Milwaukee Bucks and Mo Williams.  Williams was an emerging star at the point guard position. At the time he was 25 and was improving every season. Again Ferry pulls off a miraculous deal.  He pulls of a 3 team deal for the 2nd time that year (and both involved the Sonics/Thunder organization) and gets the point guard he wants.  Again the Cavaliers and Ferry committed highway robbery

-We got Mo Williams and all we had to give up was Damon Jones and Joe Smith. Even at the time, this just looks like a steal.  A 25 year old on the brink for just a couple somewhat washed out veterans. Damon Jones was a headcase who only wanted to boost his own stats.  Smith, even with his age, was a significant loss, but his loss was much less than the gain of Mo WIlliams.  Mo could pass, he could drive, and he could shoot from anywhere on the court.  the only criticism was if he would buy in defensively which he did.  Smith was not as big of a loss as we thought at the time, because the Thunder bought out his contract and we got him for about 1/3 of the season.

Again, the Cavs lost in the conference finals.  Ferry again goes out and wants to change the team.  In the series against Orlando, we got dominated in the paint.  Dwight howard just destroyed us, especially in the clinching game, game 6.  We needed a low post threat not only on defense, but on offense too.  In steps in Steve Kerr offering up Shaq.  All he is asking for is Ben Wallace and Sasha Pavlovic, and a 2nd round pick.  Pavlovic has never been good, and although Wallace was good for a while, he was definitely slowing down. Wallace was also a complete nonfactor on offense and that let Orlando double team Lebron and Mo more.

Shaq is not the player he once was but is still a solid offensive player and a good defender in the post.  He has historically given Dwight Howard trouble when defending him.  Shaq still has the strength to dominate at times in the post.  This trade again was a steal because both were either waived or agreed to buyouts and neither one is on Phoenix.  It was a salary dump from Phoenix and we benefitted.

Also, During the Offseason, Ferry went out and got some very nice free agents.  We were manhandled by the bigger, more athletic guards against Orlando like Turkoglu and Petrius.  To counter this, Ferry got Jamario Moon Anthony parker, who is a big guard, who can play D.  Jamario Moon is very long and athletic and defends well, and Parker has good size for a guard, passes well, has a great 3 point shot, and is an active defender. We also got an injured Leon Powe who has not yet produced much to the team but is an active big man on the defensive end and has great strength.

The Cavs were having a spectacular season but Ferry wasn't done.  At the trading Deadline of 2010, he pulled another fast one on everyone.  The whole world seemed to think that he truly wanted Amare and was going to get him.  Instead he picked up Antawan Jamison who is a star in his own right.  With Jamison, we get a guy who can score a variety of ways.  He can shoot the 3, the midrange shot, drive to the weak side, and post up.  He is also a hard worker on defense and is a very solid rebounder.  He is a veteran presence and although he is a scorer, he is pretty unselfish and a good team player, and give a lot of energy and works hard.  Although he is 33, he has been very consistent over the last several years.  Many (including me) believe that Ferry was never seriously after Amare.  Ferry really wanted jamison but wanted to put pressure on Wizards to get the deal He wanted.  So for Jamison, we gave up Z (who I do miss), the rights to a player in the European leagues, and our first round pick in 2010, which will be very low in the first round.

Only 2 players remain from when Ferry took over the team in 2005 and only 3 remain from the 2007 finals team were on the team.  These 3 players are Lebron, Boobie, and Andy.  in 3 seasons, Danny Ferry has completely rebuilt the team without having a down (or "rebuilding") season.  This is a miraculous feat in of itself, but also consider that this team not only has some very great young pieces, but is so much more talented.  Look back on that team...I can't believe we even made it that far.  If you consider we basically traded that roster (Gooden, Donyell, Damon Jones, Larry Hughes, Shannon Brown, Ira Newble, Sasha, and a couple future picks) for what we have now (Mo Williams, Delonte, Shaq, Jamison, and Danny Green) it is amazing.  I cannot think of any person who would not do that in a heartbeat.

Obviously everyone knows about the trade prowess of Danny ferry but one overlooked area is drafting.  Granted, Danny Ferry did not always have a ton of good picks to work with.

-His first year, we had the 25th pick, his second season drafting, we did once have the 24th pick in the draft, but we had traded it to Boston in the infamous trade for the infamous Jiri Welsch.

-We did also have the 22nd pick in the draft which Ferry did trade for Sasha Pavlovic.  The guy taken, Jared Dudley, has not been spectacular, but he is definitely better than Sasha.  This is the only trade screwup I could find in the history of Danny Ferry (and the difference between Sasha and Jared Dudley or WIlson Chandler isn't something to fuss over at all). 

-The highest Ferry ever picked was 19 when he took JJ.

Analyzing the drafts:

2006
-This was his first year drafting (he was hired the day before the '05 draft, and we didn't have any picks in that draft) and he did well.  In the first round we took Shannon Brown.  While Brown never worked out for the Cavs, he has found a niche with the Lakers in their system.  Considering the options at the time, it still was a good Pick.

-We also had the 55th pick in this draft.  With this pick we took a European League Nigerian named Ejike Ugboaja.  He still hasn't played in the NBA but no one drafted after him has made any sort of impact either.

-The star of this draft though was our 42nd pick where we took Boobie Gibson.  This was not originally our pick though.  We originally got it from Philadelphia and all we had to give them was Lee Nailon so really, nothing.  This trade was a steal because Boobie has turned into a good player.  Only a couple of guys drafted after him have been even halfway decent so far in their NBA career

2007
-No Picks because of Jiri Welsh.   Thank you Jim Paxon in all of your Brilliance.  We also traded a first rounder from this draft for Sasha Pavlovic .

2008
-This was the beacon year for Ferry as drafting.  He had the highest pick he had ever had with the 19th overall pick.  When you look at Hickson, this was a great pickup. Here are some of the career PERs for guys drafted in the picks after Hickson (although PER isn't everything it shows production and contributions made)

----12.5, 12.6, 13, 11.8, 11.4...Hickson's career PER is 13.6  The only guy who has a higher PER in either season than Hickson is having this year is Ryan Anderson who has a PER slightly higher than Hickson's is now.  Hickson coming out was probably one of the most raw players out of the PERs I mentioned (Courtney Cee, Ryan Anderson, Kosta Koufos, CDR, and Super Mario).  Looking back it is always easy to judge things like this and it is still early, but looking back, Ferry looks brilliant here.  Hickson has been the most productive player we could have drafted, AND he probably has one of the highest ceilings.  Love Hickson or hate him, it is hard to criticize the move drafting him.

-This draft wasn't all about Hickson.  With the 52nd pick we took Darnell Jackson.  While he has not contributed much, there really isn't a player drafted that low that has made more of an impact in the NBA.  He is a solid defender in the post and is strong.  Then, with the 56th pick we took Sasha Kaun.  Kaun is still playing over in russia but he is a 7 footer and a nice player.  both of these guys we bought the rights to, for cash considerations (basically chump change).  Both are smart players and Kaun has a fairly high ceiling.

2009
-With our first rounder, which was the last pick in the first round, we took Christian Eyenga.  He is a 6'6 G/F who is still extremely raw.  He is not a polished shooter yet, but is active on defense and is great driving to the basket and slashing.  his athletic skills are great and his is big and fairly strong, but he is still extremely raw and we probably won't see him for another year or 2 (he is only 20 anyways).  It is too early to judge at all if he will be good but he showed flashes of greatness in the summer league this year.

-With the 46th pick, we picked up Danny Green.  It is definitely too early to tell on him but for where we drafted him, he is a very nice player.  A second rounder giving really any contribution his rookie year is rare and Green has been pretty reliable.

-We also got Emir Preldžič who we traded the rights of for Jamison.  This I honestly don't care about because the guy is 22 and he looks like he is still a couple years away from even being ready for the NBA.

OVERALL:

I want to give grades for ferry for My opinions of the Jobs he has done in certain areas including Drafting, Trading, and Free Agent Signing.

In 2005, he came in and the team was just in ruins really.  Hearing some of the names (like Luke Jackson, Welsch, Diop, Dajuan Wagner, McInnis, Luscious Harris) truly makes me depressed thinking about it.  Ownership got rid of Paul Silas and Jim Paxon who had decimated the team and only made 2 good moves; trading away Tony Battie and 2 second rounders for Andy and Gooden, and picking Lebron (though the latter was a no brainer decision).  Ferry came in and installed a new coach in Mike Brown and tried to build the franchise up to a championship team.

  1. Drafting:  Ferry never had anything miraculous to work with.  He never had a lottery pick and only once had a pick inside the top 20.  With that pick, at 19, he truly picked the best player available.  Not only has Hickson produced on the court, but he still has tremendous upside.  All of his first rounders have been good players and have produced well considering where they were drafted.  Although Shannon Brown never worked out here, it was still a solid draft pick.  He definitely had some misses in the second round, but the 2nd round of the NBA draft (and even sometimes the end of the first) is just a complete crapshoot.  quite a few players we drafted in the 50s and you are lucky if those players ever see the court.  Sadly none of those draft picks ever did, but we had 3 very solid picks in the 2nd that have worked out well and were good grabs.  in 2006, we grabbed Boobie Gibson who has played very well.  In '08 we got Darnell Jackson and this past year we got Danny Green.  both are on the team still, which, even with players drafted where they were (the 40s overall), is still somewhat of an accomplishment...  Overall Grade A- (only a minus b/c Shannon Brown never worked out here, and he traded away the 22nd overall pick one year for Sasha).


  2. Signing Free Agents: For Ferry, this was probably his worst category.  He definitely had his ups and downs but he figured it out in the end.  In 2005, he wanted to truly form the team after getting rid of a lot of not so great players.  He brought in Damon Jones, Larry Hughes, and Donyell Marshall.  The theory with these guys is that Jones was a shooter who could Knock down 3s, Donyell was an Inside-Outside guy who could rebound, score, and shoot, plus get some blocks, and Hughes could drive to the hoop and was a Decent passer.  Hughes however was extremely injury prone and after one injury, he went from a guy who loved to drive to the hoop to a guy who was scared of it; he seemed to be off mentally after the injury.  Damon Jones never bought into the Defensive system.  He just wanted to put up big numbers and shoot 3s all day.  Donyell was getting older and he could get blocks on a bad defense, but did not buy into well the team defense idea of Mike Brown.  This group of Free agents were a bust. 

    Along the way though, Ferry got better and learned from his mistakes.  He did not ever sign a huge group of free agents like that again, but found nice players every year; guys like Devin Brown, Terance Kinsey, Lorenzeen Wright, Jawad Williams, Joe Smith (after we traded him and he got bought out), Anthony Parker, and Jamario Moon.  The best out of the bunch turned out to be maybe the guys we got this year (Williams, Parker, and Moon).  They have all been solid contributors and I have liked how Parker has played and been lights out from 3 point land as a starter.  Also, I give Ferry credit for resigning Delonte and Andy because it wasn't a guarantee that those guys would come back (Delonte almost went to europe).  Overall Grade B.  While Ferry failed at the beginning, he found many nice pieces along the way and when he had to, resigned pieces and didn't let them leave.


  3. Trades:  Now this category I have gone over the most in here.  Some of the trades pulled off were pretty amazing.  He really didn't start the trading until we lost in the Finals and he realized the guys in place weren't working.  He traded mostly just pieces that didn't fit (Damon Jones, Larry Hughes, Donyell, Shannon Brown, Gooden, Cedri Simmons, Joe Smith who we would later resign, Z who still might come back, and Sasha).  He also pulled off minor deals that are not talked about as much.  He traded Lee Nailon for the pick that got us Boobie (Boobie for Nailon...not bad).  His first year he traded Mike Wilks (who has played only 76 NBA games since in 3.5 years) for Flip Murray and for all the pain he caused us at times, it was a brilliant move.  He also acquired two 2nd round picks in the last 2 years who he used on Darnell Jackson and Danny Green.  The one move I still just don't like is trading the 22nd overall pick for Sasha Pavlovic.  Granted, it was a high pick and no one taken around there was anything that special, but I still don't like the deal.  Overall though, some of the trades he pulled off looking back are unbelievable.  he got rid of so many bad contracts and picked up Delonte, Mo, Jamison, and Shaq.

    -Quick fun fact i just looked up.  in the season where we lost to the Celtics in the playoffs, the team was 20th in offensive rating.  the next year, with Delonte and Mo the whole year and both acclimated to the system, that number shoots up to 4th.  We jumped more than HALF the league.

    Overall Grade:
    A++. Not everyone is perfect and he did screw up by trading for Sasha, but covered it up by using Sasha to get Shaq.

Overall Grade on his body of Work: A.  While it was rocky at the beginning, Ferry has now established himself as an elite GM in the league and is turning the Cavs into an NBA flagship franchise.

Poll
What grade would you give Danny Ferry? (say why in the comments)
A+
79 votes
A
117 votes
B+/A-
33 votes
B
17 votes
B- Or Lower
36 votes

282 votes | Poll has closed

This is a Fan-Created Comment on FearTheSword.com. The opinion here is not necessarily shared by the editorial staff at FearTheSword

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Best GM without a championship?

Maybe you should qualify your statement. While I will concede that Ferry makes very nice moves to improve his team, I just want to make the point that the best GM should really only have to make a few moves to make his team a champion. I want to point out to you that Boston won the championship by making one big move and the Lakers last year won because of a great trade to get Gasol. (Which would have been a great trade for Cleveland to pull off.)

The addition of Jamison was a no brainer since the big move in the off-season for the Cavs was to get an aging big man who clogs up the lane. I think Ferry was lucky to have LeBron, but he is letting LeBron dictate the way the team shapes up. I think all of his moves have been made to placate to a superstar who is holding his team in ransom.

I just want to say that while this is a blog for the Cavs, you should try and be a little more honest to both you and your readers. It’s fun to say things like LeBron is the best player in the NBA. (And he is…) Our team is the best! (Record wise yes that is also true) But to make claims that your GM is the best without winning a single championship is to me jumping the shark. I expect to blasted by the people who read this. And feel free to respond….but I leave it you to have a real look about what Danny Ferry has accomplished.

by Rsuave on Feb 19, 2010 7:26 PM CST reply actions  

also consider the team that he inherited when he took over the team. go back and look at the cleveland rosters from 2003, and 2004…they are pretty pitiful. the fact that he took a mediocre team with one great player, to a perennial playoff team is definitely something.

Also consider that boston got more than garnett. they also acquired rondo in the draft, drafted big baby, traded for ray allen, and got good bench players such as PJ brown and james posey. in that year and a half time period between when the celtics sucked and they were great, there was A LOT of turnover on the roster.

If you look at the situation ferry was thrown into, he did do quite a good job.

Lets look at the players LA had during ’07-08 that they acquired recently…

Bynum: drafted recently and finally was a good contributor, the development of Jordan Farmar, and trading for Radmonovic and turiaf. while these guys were not stars, they would not have made the championship game without them because these guys made up the support players/bench that was key. without the development of bynum, farmar and the 2 FAs they WOULD NOT have beaten the Jazz. even with gasol. Bynum Jumped in PER from about 15 to over 20 and was very key in the playoffs. just like you could argue they would not have been that good without Gasol, you could argue the same about bynum. in 2008-2009, ariza developed and they got josh powell who was key off the bench. NO team can turn around because of one deal.

I would not say the acquisition of jamison was a no brainer. Many thought that they would take amare or that they might not make a deal. in fact, lebron supposedly wanted AMARE. so how is this lebron holding the team for randsom? this is just ferry improving a team so they can win a championship…anything wrong with that?

While my opinions are obviously subjective, my analysis is not. Except for a couple bad Free Agent moves, ferry has made just about all right decisions. I am sorry, but the best GM in the league does NOT the one with the rings…is the Magic GM otis smith beter b/c orlando beat them in the playoffs? No. Smith is decent but there definitely is room for criticism on his moves.

the point is, when you purely look at player/roster management since ferry took over the team, he is one of the league’s best. he is also an excellent drafter. I don’t know if you actually read the article but there is empirical evidence to prove how he drastically improved the team.

Jim Paxon was a dreadful GM. he traded 2 first rounders for a career benchwarmer…the team ferry was left was horrible. if you take away lebron and have them play a 7 game series against the Nets, the nets would probably win in about 5 games…that is how bad the team was.

by bross09 on Feb 19, 2010 9:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Read my post again

“quite a good job” I agree with you. He did a good job. But again I can hardly say he is the best GM. All I am saying is that maybe Cleveland fans should wait and see how many championships this team wins before saying things like Ferry is the best GM. I have no problems with claims of we are the best team or LeBron is the best player in the league. But there is no way that Ferry is the best GM. We judge players on how many championships they have delivered. I think it should be the same way with GM’s. I think even in your response you concede that he isn’t the best. I’m not saying he isn’t a good GM. I’m saying he isn’t the best (but he maybe proven to be later). No real point in debating the other points you make. Because those GMs did win championships. You can argue the amount of moves they did make, but I did say a few moves I was only pointing out the major deals that put the team over the top.

by Rsuave on Feb 20, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you. for the cavs it only took a couple major deals to put them (potentially over the top).

I admit to being subjective in my opinion. He might not be the league’s best GM but IMO the argument definitely could be made.

the actual things I wrote though, completely objective. looking at what he did, he did do a great job. the cavs teams before he got here were dreadful. You take lebron off of those teams and they probably couldn’t beat the nets…

ferry gets rid of the bad apples, and brings in some good free agents. these free agents get him to the finals but they did underachieve. so he deals them for some undervalued players (like delonte west) and then deals some of these guys (like ben wallace, or joe smith) for Stars.

honestly, in 3 years he made a sow’s ear team into a very nice purse…may not be 100% silk but there is definitely some silk in there.

I do see your point about championships. However, I would consider Ferry a much better GM than Danny Ainge. if you look at the celtics, they mortaged their future to win 1 championship. in 3-4 years, that is a bad team again. they didn’t have a draft pick this past season and their 2008 draft pick has played in a total of about 25 games…

with trading Picks before this, I give Ainge an F.

He traded antoine walker and tony delk, for 3 bad players and a low first rounder. with that pick he took delonte who I do like as a cav. still the move did set the franchise back a little bit and although he was building for the future, he mortgaged the future of delonte by trading him for KG

he traded for theo ratliff, a 2nd rounder, and sebastian telfair for their first pick in 2006. with this pick he could have gotten randy foye or rudy gay….foye isn’t good this year but was much better in minny

He was smart in that he got LAs 2006 draft pick in the first…then he traded it away for an old antoine walker…then they re traded for the pick (which was Rajon Rondo) and then traded away a future pick for it.

then they got rid of antoine walker for basically nothing and he won the finals.

long story short, while danny ainge did pull off one or two great moves that won the team the championship, he also had a series of bad moves beforehand. he has always been trading picks away and if he decided to keep the picks and build a team, the team right now would be a good playoff team in the east. not only that, but they would be able to be good long term…this season is the last hurrah of boston.

by bross09 on Feb 20, 2010 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

A bunch of contradictions

Whoever wrote this article says nice things about a player in one paragraph, then contradicts himself in the next paragraph about the same player. In other words, he is good when we get him and not so good when we trade him. Plus Jamison is not a good defender and since I am a Laker fan, I would love to thank Ferry for trading Z. The one advantage the Cavs had over the Lakers was their size advantage in the frontcourt, when they played Shaq and Z at the same time. They just screwed it up when they match up against the Lakers. The Lakers can handle Jamison much easier at 6’9", then Z at 7’3" . If the Cavs don’t get him back, the Lakers will repeat. Thanks Ferry for being the best GM in the league, the Lakers can use more like him.

by juiceman01 on Feb 19, 2010 9:14 PM CST reply actions  

1. but Z is very likely to come back

2. Jamison is not an amazing defender but he is better than amare, and better than troy murphy. he also gives EFFORT on defense, and in the cavs system, that is all that matters. amare doesn’t give effort on the defensive end anymore.

okay, lets see pau gasol try to guard the faster, more agile, jamison. I would love to see pau guard jamison and be stuck on the perimeter.

obviously you know very little about jamison’s game.

there are no contradictions.

the only ones that can be even construed are about Joe Smith, Ben Wallace, and Larry hughes.

Hughes: while I DID say he bought into the system defensively, he took WAY too many jumpers. I did not want to leave out what he did contribute in, but it was a great move getting rid of him.

Wallace: wallace was good when we traded for him, but was not as good in the playoffs. plus in the playoffs he was really exposed offensively. even more so than the regular season, teams left him unguarded and double teamed lebron. while he still had some value, we needed a low post threat so we traded for Shaq.

actually I never say anything about Joe smith except A) he is getting older and B) he is nothing special.

please point out to me where there is ACTUALLY a contradiction. I looked at this truly objectively. I AM a cavaliers fan but even I was surprised at the quality of some of the moves.

by bross09 on Feb 19, 2010 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Z coming back is wishful thinking. They’re several good teams that say they want him if he is bought out. And no one from either Phoenix, nor Washington ever said they would do that. You also said that Radmanovic and Turiaf were traded for by L.A., that is wrong. Radmanovic was signed as a free agent and Turiaf was drafted, had a heart condition, had surgery paid for by the Lakers and then played. Please get your facts straight before you write them. As for Jamison, he is a Spencer Haywood thirty years later. All offense and not much defense. Tell me how many times the Wizards beat the Lakers since Pau was obtained. The answer is none. The only time Jamison ever took the Lakers apart was when he was with Warriors years ago. He had one big game. Cleveland is a very good team, I am not saying otherwise. Their lifeline is very short. Plus Jamison in his first game made 2 points and went 0 for 12 in shooting. I don’t think the Lakers are shaking in their boots at the moment. After watching the Lakers play Cleveland this year and watching what Shaq did to Bynum and Gasol last year, I was a little nervous. When your coach started Z and Shaq against the Lakers, it had a tremendous effect on the Lakers. I was nervous. They were the only team in the league that could match up in size. They just lost that advantage. I read this morning that Z was a little miffed about being traded and understood that the league and trades is a business. His loyalty to Cleveland was unwavering, but he understands that life goes on and will be looking at all the opportunities offered to him. Miami, Atlanta, and Phoenix are interested in him and have 30 days to sign him if he is bought out before Cleveland has a chance to get him back. As for Ferry, I would say that 50% of his acquisitions worked out for the team. The best GM’s in the league reside in Orlando, Houston, and Los Angeles (and I don’t mean Dunleavy).

by juiceman01 on Feb 19, 2010 11:11 PM CST up reply actions  

oh btw, it is not at all wishful thinking to think Z will come back.

This is my team,‘’ he said. "I’m going to be mad, but not so mad that I wouldn’t come back. I understand it’s a business. This is my home. No matter what happens in the future, that will never change.
he said MY team…

If he decides to leave Cleveland, once he gets the buyout — and we hope we will have several options — he will only go to a team that can win a championship, period," agent Herb Rudoy told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution Thursday. "He will not be on a team that has no chance. He wants to play for one of the top teams.

yes…you can be technical. he was signed as a free agent. they were both signed in a short proximity in years to the gasol deal…

Lol…you measure how good a player is based on how well his sucky team plays against the lakers? wait…so a teams performance is the measure on how a player is good??? wow, shannon brown must be a Hall of Famer…he did win an NBA championship this year.

Jamison is a decent defensive player. he will not hurt you but he is not that great. the important thing is he does give consistent effort on the defensive end. in the mike brown defensive system, a mediocre defensive player is not exposed. they play a team defense. as long as you put an effort in on the defensive end, you look decent.

I would say houston has a very nice GM. I do respect him and he does make some good moves.

Orlando I would say is average. I criticized the vince carter deal. He has not looked comfortable at all. He is shooting just barely over 40% from the field. he is getting points but only b/c he is taking 17 shots a game. his PER has plummeted this year and he is getting slower every month. he already was a guy who committed more fouls than he should as a guard. for a guard to get 3.1 fouls every 36 minutes on the floor is not good at all. he is in fould trouble WAY more than he should. you already have that problem with Howard too. carter was never a good defensive player but now he can’t keep up with faster guards. he is a seive on D. He is also, for a great player, not only not great in the clutch, but horrible in the playoffs. he sees a 30 point drop in the playoffs in FG% and 40 points in 3 Pointers.

also, they could have rodney stuckey on their team…yeah they traded him for Darko. darko did diddly when in orlando just like he has done diddly with his career.

by the way, don’t you think orlando would love to have ronnie brewer or rajon rondo? they had the chance. they took JJ reddick in the draft, which at the time was a bit of a reach…as a 3 point shooter off the bench, boobie gibson has been just as effective…oh he was drafter over a whole round after reddick was…

they also drafted 11th overall the previous year…that draft pick is still in europe.

I will say that houston and LA GMs are very good. but Ferry has not been a GM for all that long. morey has been at the post also for a short time. during that time, it is hard for me to say which is better…it is such a small window.

kupchak has been in the organization since the 80s and has been the “official” GM for a decade.

by bross09 on Feb 20, 2010 1:28 AM CST up reply actions  

First of all civilized people don’t use a subject line on a sports blog.

Juiceman01,

Thanks for your comments but no one cares what you say on a Cavs blog. Z was ok at this point. Shaq has been a huge help because he has greatly increased the number of shots made in the lane and decreased the number of shots made in the lane against. An outside shooting center could help some but we haven’t quite lost Z, have we.

All of this is irrelevant though. The NBA is so screwed up in salary currently. All trades have both a buyer and a seller. If you look at trades in general in all major sports leagues, that is normally not the case. Because the NBA salary structure is currently broken and most team’s are losing money, any strong franchise can pilfer the weak in trades.

Is Ferry a good GM? He’s not bad. What if the Cavs lost out in the lottery and ended up at 2 or 3. Did we draft Darko, Carmello, or Wade? Could have made a big diffe ence of how Ferry is viewed in the long term. Not gonna give a Dukie the nod quite yet until I see a ring.

Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder

by jerseywahoo on Feb 19, 2010 10:27 PM CST reply actions  

I guess another person with a bias (duke). Its okay.

Ferry was GM starting in June 2005, a good few years after lebron was drafted.

look back, was ferry drafting when we drafted lebron? No Jim Paxon was. not being an idiot and taking lebron was one of the only things Paxon did that were at all good (the other was trading tony battie and 2 2nd rounders for Varejao and Gooden). If ferry was here, it is likely we do NOT take darko. we would take Melo or Wade. Also, these guys are superstars in their own right and with the moves ferry made, we would still be a great team. replace lebron with melo or wade on this team…its still a damn good team.

Yes. I agree trading in the NBA is screwed up. the cavs though have not always been a strong franchise. when ferry took over, we still hadn’t made the playoffs. we had players on our team such as Jeff McInnis, DaJuan Wagner, Luke Jackson, Diop, Jiri Welsch, and eric snow. take away lebron from the 2004-2005 team he inherited and they would likely lose to the nets (and maybe lose a series in about 5 games. I liked ira newble and he gave a good effort, but when Newble starts basically the whole season, there is something seriously wrong with your team.

Even when we made it to the finals in 2006-2007, I would not consider us an extremely strong team. again, that team would not be that good without lebron. it would likely finish below .500.

honestly, the fact that we made it to the finals is a credit to mike brown as a coach and the skills of lebron. by this point, Z wasn’t putting up stellar numbers anymore, hughes was taking terrible shots. the only guy who was at all decent was lebron. even with lebron, we had a horrible offense. we were near the bottom in the league.

The cavs were not a strong franchise at all that year. we honestly should have lost to the pistons but they completely choked. yes they played good D but they were a MUCH better team.

I don’t think they were that strong of a franchise. they were a decent franchise with bad contracts like larry hughes, and ferry was able to get rid of them. I don’t think that the cavs were truly a “great” franchise until they acquired Mo Williams. before that they were decent, but they were not that strong, and had a very weak team.

Yes, the cavs were successful during this point. at the same time, it is hard for me to believe that the cavs would be anywhere near this good if Jim Paxon was the GM still. even if we got a middle of the road GM in here, we would probably be 3rd of 4th in the east. a lesser GM would not have been able to unload Larry Hughes like he did to get delonte and Wallace (who was later traded for shaq). a lesser GM would have also drafted a guy like CDR or alex Ajinca in the draft in 2008. instead ferry drafted Hickson

you can say ferry was in a good situation, but he really wasn’t. he did have lebron but outside of lebron, the franchise was just as bad off as when they drafted him…maybe worse. He made the best out of a pretty mediocre situation. even though I believe the Pistons choked (but lebron AND boobie were uber clutch), it is still a great feat to take a team from not being a playoff team to being in the NBA finals. Danny ainge did it and he got credit for it. ferry has not gotten the credit for building a good franchise around lebron.

by bross09 on Feb 19, 2010 11:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I thought you said that no one cares about my comments on this blog. I guess you care. And I never said I was civilized.

by juiceman01 on Feb 19, 2010 11:13 PM CST up reply actions  

The only thing i question danny ferry on:

Why did you even trade Z and his bird rights this year? If the wizards were willing to move Jamison for salary relief and a draft pick, why not use wally z in a sign and trade like some other pundits suggested? Why trade Z and risk not having him back or not being able to resign him after this year because you’ve traded his bird rights?

"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."

by jaws. on Feb 20, 2010 12:24 AM CST reply actions  

maybe they were not biting on the wally offer. Who knows what washington was thinking or truly wanted…we definitely don’t.

I remember you really wanted amare, but I hope you are at least satisfied with jamison and hickson.

by bross09 on Feb 20, 2010 1:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I’m guessing the amare rumor might have been a smokescreen or at least not really that serious in the first place. I think the suns said no (It really wasn’t a good trade for a team that is 10 games over .500) and the rumors of impending amare deals drove down the cost of jamison and drove up the cost of amare. Rumor has it that the suns turned down a deal with the rockets that was easily much better than the rumored cavs deal. When Z comes back I will be happy with the jamison trade (keeping JJ in the jamison trade made it almost as good as getting amare)

At the very least we feel even more like a cleveland team, with sentimental favorites Antawn Jamison and Ilgauskas who have struggled for years to win a title and are now very close, just like cleveland sports fans.

"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."

by jaws. on Feb 21, 2010 3:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah. I agree.

I do believe that the amare deal was a little bit of a smokescreen.

You are right about Jamison. that is why I really feel more confident about him. I read something about how he kept a picture of the larry o brian trophy in his locker. he is a veteran with one goal.

by bross09 on Feb 21, 2010 12:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Saying Danny Ferry is the best GM is a little too bold, but he definitely belongs in the handful of GMs who builds and maintains contenders.

by celtics3016 on Feb 20, 2010 9:00 PM CST reply actions  

maybe. I am not just good at coming up with catchy titles.

my honest opinion is that. he is among a handful of the best and you may be able to argue the case, but he is not the surefire best. I have though about changing the title but I just am a little lazy…

by bross09 on Feb 20, 2010 9:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Lets see how ferry handles this off season. At the very least he has basically created a situation where LeBron has no legitimate basketball reason to leave cleveland, thats the best you can really hope for.

"My signature is only one line. You're welcome."

by jaws. on Feb 21, 2010 9:59 PM CST reply actions  

I agree. I still think considering what the team was when he took over, he had done a find job. one of the best jobs in the league during that stretch.

by bross09 on Feb 21, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd say

Denver’s GM since he traded for Billups and also traded for J.R. and drafted Melo and got Kenyon Martin and built that team over again around Melo better than Ferry has built this team for Lebron. He still hasn’t drafted a true PG or someone who can take the ball out of Lebron’s hands so he doesn’t have to be the number one ballhandler. And his coach is a glorified coach, who only knows defense and couldn’t run an offense if all he had to do was push a button. He’s made good moves no doubt, but other teams have done better for their teams and their superstars. San Antonio for example does better with drafting and trades and it only recently misstepped with the Jefferson trade.

by Marty Mart on Feb 22, 2010 11:58 AM CST reply actions  

I would say that cleveland does a great job with drafting.

I agree denver built a good team around Melo, but with this recent trade, this team is a MUCH better team around lebron than the team around Melo.

Did oscar robertson need a true point guard on his teams? no he never had one b/c he WAS the initiator on offense. lebron is a superb passer. better than melo, better than Bosh, better than Kobe and even better than Wade. for a guy who isn’t a true point guard, he is the best passer in the league. he is top 3-5 in assists per game and during the last month, he even averaged more assists per game than Nash…

You don’t NEED a true point guard with lebron. he is a POINT FORWARD. the kind of guy you need is a guy who can pass but his best aspect is shooting and taking shots (and secondary skills is driving to the basket). This perfectly describes mo williams. the guys that are on the team are the kind of guys that complement a player like lebron well. without lebron the team probably would need a true point guard, but lebron fills that role as a passer.

I would not consider Mike Brown a glorified coach. he calls some good plays and when Mo was healthy with lebron, the offense was very smooth. Just because a guy is a defensive coach, doesn’t mean he cannot run an offense effectively. he wasn’t as good earlier in his coaching career but he has definitely improved. Still. he is one of the best defensive coaches in the league. he has never had a defensive stopper like Poppovich had in San Antonio like bruce bowen or Duncan. the best he has had was shaq (and lebron…who is now a very good defender).

by bross09 on Feb 22, 2010 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

True

Oscar never had a true PG, but there’s a reason he never won until Kareem showed up, the same reason you mentioned above about Mo Williams, but Mo is nowhere near as good as Kareem. He can’t do it all. The reason Lebron needed a true PG was because he wasn’t always the greatest dribbler and while that has significantly improved you can’t tell me you don’t wish that sometimes he didn’t have to initiate everything. You need someone whose able to initiate and create for others when Lebron isn’t on the floor, and it would help to be able to run plays where Lebron doesn’t have to touch the ball. It gives more variety to the offense when the PG can shoot Bron down from touching the ball and running a different play. Lastly, the reason he also has as many assists as Nash is because he handles the ball as much as Nash something none of the other players you listed but Wade can say.
Magic was big enough to be a Point-Forward, but he rarely led the Lakers in asts on the season for the first couple seasons. There were other people who could create and that made them even more deadly.
I can’t say they’re MUCH better than Denver, but I will give you the Cavs should be more consistent, idk how Denver plays so well one minute and then plays so poorly the next time you see them.
Passing skills are something thats hard to judge as none of the other players you mentioned other than Wade are the main initiators of their offense. Melo has Billups, Bosh is a PF he doesn’t initiate much, and Kobe shares duties with the other wings as thats how the triangle works.
We’ll agree to disagree on Mike Brown.

by Marty Mart on Feb 22, 2010 6:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Lebron likes being unselfish. he has a scorers touch and aggressiveness (and skill) with great effort on the glass, and the unselfishness to be the initiator. if lebron has guys he can trust, he LIKES not being the guy. You have not watched much cavs basketball, but in clutch situations, he doesn’t always take the shot. he can if he wants to and he does well in the clutch.

and by the way, when lebron isn’t on the floor, usually either Delonte or Mo williams are. both of these guys, while they might not be “true” point guards, they are solid at initiating the offense. they might not be steve nash but they are solid. Mo williams in fact was initiating the offense in milwaukee before we got him and he was doing a good job. he still initiates at times but he doesn’t have to be the true point guard b/c the team has lebron. in milwaukee, before we traded for him, he averaged 6.3 assists per game with a 2.3 A/TO ratio. while this might not be great it is definitely at least middle of the pack. Delonte also has shown in his career he can initiate when needed. however, he is not often called upon to initiate the offense.

good thing you said the first couple of seasons. yeah he didn’t lead team his first year…I wouldn’t expect a rookie, even Magic to be the leader in assists (per game…so to negate injuries). He wasn’t his rookie year, but neither was lebron. Lebron DID lead his team his second season, but the point guard position still had more assists. The cavs didn’t have one main point guard, they had 2 that fought for time. Also, when Magic got about the same amount of assists per game as his point guard the next season. Magic led his team really every other season once he developed as a player.

The point is, that lebron CAN and WILL be the initiator on offense. I was looking at a little video and some stats. For his position, bosh is a solid passer. nothing bad but not someone who should be initiating the offense. Carmelo is the same way except IMO, the SF usually should be a little better of a passer than a true big man. Also from what I have seen, out of all the guys I mentioned, Melo is probably the worst passer.

On the subject of the cavs VS the Nuggets. the nuggets have a lot of nice players, but if I play them in a 7 game series, there is not a guy I truly worry about on their team offensively. I can stop chauncey billups. He is a good shooter, but you just trap him and play a little help Defense. I don’t want him driving to the basket. I want him to either launch a not so perfect 3 or pass it. I can stop Chauncey. JR smith is a nice offensive player but he is not a huge scoring threat. he can be stopped and his shooting has been extremely streaky this year. If he is on, I will play tough D on him, if he is off (which is much more likely) you have a guy play loose on him and play Help D on Chauncey. I would play Mo on Chauncey and have Delonte play help D. delonte is the better defensive player, but Mo is not tall enough to guard JR. Nene is a nice interior post player, but put shaq on him and he is neutralized. Kenyon martin is not that great of an offensive player. Jamison is more than adequate to guard him. besides ‘Melo, the team doesn’t really have a good 3. So, you have to play JR there. he is really a 2 with a streaky shot. in that case, you would play afflalo at guard. He is a good shooter but he doesn’t drive to the lane well and if pressured, would rather pass than shoot. Anthony parker is not a 3, but he is just as big as JR and more lankier.

Chauncey billups is a good defender. this could be hard for mo, but He can still play his game adequately. Mo is pretty deadly from downtown and can drive to the basket so is hard to guard. JR smith is the kind of guy that tends to have mental lapses. on offense that consitutes not great passing and streaky shooting. on D this is being apathetic at times, taking plays off, and slacking off his man. Anthony parker by pure percentage is one of our best 3 point shooters. when he takes 3 pointers he is deadly. he is also good at the midrange shot. with JR slacking off, he can exploit it easily. Afflalo is a pedestrian defensive player. he gives effort but isn’t all that great. Delonte isn’t a great player, but Afflalo definitely won’t shut him down. Kenyon martin is a decent defender. he gets blocks and steals okay but he also doesn’t give maximum effort. he is also a step slow these days. He is a solid post defender but leaves something to be desired defending outside of the post. Jamison can exploit this. he is a bit quicker than Martin and can drive it past him. he can also shoot it over martin because he has a quick release, long wingspan, and they are both the same height. Jamison would pick him apart. Nene is a good defender in the post, but shaq is a good scorer. neither one will dominate each other and shaq will get his points, but nene will give him a tough time occasionally.

The one matchup I didn’t mention was the birdman VS Varejao. while chris andersen is a better shot blocker, they are about even when it comes to D. they are the same height and weight. Andy (varejao) however plays much more solid one on one D whereas andersen is more of a guy who excels at help D where he can come over from the weak side and block a shot. Andy is also great at drawing offensive fouls which is a significant skill. Andy is one of the best big men (especially for his size) at setting picks. he is also solid at defending the pick and roll. He is a good passer for a Big man and takes care of the ball well They are similar players but Andy is more polished on the offensive end. also, Andy is more consistent and is a great hustle player.

all in all, i think the cavs would win a series matched up in 6 games, though most of the games would be highly contested. without Melo, the nuggets would have to rely on billups to score.

by bross09 on Feb 23, 2010 1:10 AM CST up reply actions  

oh. by the way, there were other reasons that the big O never won.

1. He always seemed to run into the celtics or the 76ers…yeah, it is real easy trying to beat wilt chamberlain, or those old 60s celtics.

2. He never had a ton of great offensive players around him like russell had. he did have jerry lucas for a little while but that was not enough to get him over those celtics. 2 players does not a team make

3. Coaching. The main coach for his time in Cincinnati (Jack McMahon) was out of the NBA in 3 years, after he left the royals. when he didn’t have jerry lucas and the big O, he was a horrible coach the coach before him (charles wolf) was also not very good. he also had cousy as a coach and while cousy was a great player, he was not a good coach. while the coach in milwaukee might not have been great, he was better than these guys…plus he had kareem and the big O.

Larry Costello, the Milwaukee coach focused on defense. he didn’t worry about offense b/c of who he had. he made them a great defensive team too. if any of the Royals teams had a solid D they probably would have won a championship.

by bross09 on Feb 23, 2010 1:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Danny Ferry ....

..is the leagues best GM because he practices “The Secret”

"minds sharpens minds, like steel sharpens steel"

by NELLY808 on Feb 23, 2010 5:40 AM CST reply actions  

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