When the Devil's Advocate pays a visit...
by AncientMariner on May 15, 2010 11:26 AM CDT
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I am sitting here, fully prepared for fiery responses to the post I am about to write. My asbestos keyboard and monitor are all set. Even my wife thinks that I am a few cans short of a twelve-pack with what I am about to say. She is the same woman who told me, just this morning, that "Jordan had his Pippen and that guy who hung around with Madonna" (I reminded her that he preferred to be called Dennis Rodman), "and what the Cavs need to do is fire the coach and to get someone new who can make the rest of the team support LeBron like Pippen and that other guy did."
If someone who only in the past year or so has taken to basketball already knows such things, I should probably listen to her....but...
Here is my reason for maybe not being so hasty to dump Coach Brown. I already know all of the reasons why we should, I have heard them all, read them all in hundreds of angry and/or sensible posts, not only on FTS but on other sites. You know the sites I mean, the kind of sites that give Coach really charming names like "Potato", "Hash Brown", etc. I must confess, not with any pride, that I even joked recently that if we were going to go with the hash brown angle, and due to the hundreds of different twists and turns the past month have brought, that "Waffle House" might be the most appropriate name of all, since, after all, the Waffle House specializes in a countless assortment of possible hash-brown mixes, and every day we seemed to see a different Cavs' team.
But then a couple of things started to fall into place, a couple of mysteries began to be cleared up, and suddenly, it is not so obvious to me that the coach should be a scapegoat here. So please, bear with me.
Danny Ferry announced yesterday that LeBron James had come to the team before the April 8th Bulls regular season game and announced that his arm was bothering him. That night, he sat out. As he did for all of the remainder of the regular season.
Mystery number one solved. I have mentioned on this site more than once that it made no sense at all that LeBron had played 35 minutes on April 6th against Toronto, which was battling with the Bulls for the eighth playoff spot, and that he had then sat two nights later against the Bulls in a game the Cavs only lost by a point. Remember that it was in the Toronto game that Chris Bosh was hurt. After the Raptors lost their best player in a loss to the Cavaliers and then LeBron sat out a winnable game against Toronto's only rival for a playoff spot, I had a bad taste in my mouth.
The conventional wisdom back then was that Andrew Bogut had just been hurt for Milwaukee, and then Bosh went down, and that LeBron was being held out to avoid injury, kind of an "Oh dear, look what is happening to other teams, we had better not risk LeBron". I said on this site when the elbow issue was made public that I thought LeBron had hurt it in that Toronto game, and I take no pleasure in finding out that I was probably right.
By then, of course, we were down to our last three games, and with everything wrapped up home-court-advantage wise, Cleveland went to sleep, playing "high-level practices" the rest of the way, and losing them all, before facing the Bulls in the first round.
And here came Shaq, who had not played in weeks, trying to blend in with Antawn Jamison. In the playoffs. On the fly. As far as I am concerned, that solves mystery number two...why were the Cavs so out of sync all the way through the post-season? It is obvious now that 'Tawn and Shaq could never quite get on the same page on the court together, and a function of that difficulty was the fact that LeBron, right from the get-go, was a wounded King. He knew it, and I am sure that the players knew it as well. The fluidity of his uninjured game was missing, and that just flat out translated into uncertainty in all aspects of the game.
Two mysteries are enough to point out for now, here is a fact: nobody ever claimed that Mo Williams was an all-star on defense. True to that, he struggled mightily on D, especially against the Celtics, and with the big men having trouble melding, and with Andy Varejao having his own physical problems with his back, the road was paved and the center lines drawn for Rajon Rondo to drive...and drive and drive, not to mention to dish, and to make clutch shots in nauseating abundance.
Now comes the place where I am glad for the asbestos (actually, glad that I can take the criticism). Please tell me what Mike Brown could really have done differently in this post-season. Every match-up he tried seemed to backfire, and a lot of that, for sure, he should have been able to overcome. But knowing that three of his starting five were having problems, one physical, the other two with chemistry...is it really any shock that what happened against a veteran Celtics team happened?
When LeBron sat for the April 8th Bulls game, the Cavaliers were 61-17. The rest of the way, they were (including playoffs) 6-9. Even a semi-decent coach gone suddenly bad could not have posted such contrary numbers. And oh, by the way, it might be prudent to realize that for the past five years, years in which the Cavs never won the title, and only made the Finals once...Cleveland still managed, every single one of those five post-seasons, to finish with a winning record...yes, even last year when the Magic had people screaming for Mike's head, the Cavs went 10-4 in the playoffs, and this year, with injured LeBron and chemistry issues with another player who had been hurt, they went 6-5.
Should Mike Brown be fired? Or should he be given one more chance? And because this is a devil's advocate article, let's not factor LeBron's decision into this. Just on merit alone, and on the solution to a couple of mysteries falling into place...
Does the man not get the benefit of the doubt?
Okay...fire away.
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i still dont buy
lebrons injuries. I’m sure something was up with his arm/elbow, but by the time they were in the playoffs it didnt bother him enough to stop him from taking halfcourt shots and 360 dunks before games. Also injuries dont explain 9 turnovers in game 6 (in which he looked totally healthy). I agree that its not really mike browns fault, but then, neither does their success belong to him. Given the talent of lebron james most coaches would have produced at least as well (or not better).
so what it comes down to is: the cavs failed with mike brown at the helm. Regardless of why they didnt come together and play like a team, they didnt, and the coach is responsible for that.
I agree and disagree. Something was definitely wrong with LeBron. It could have been mental, injury-related, or alien abduction, but one thing is for sure….something was up. After watching LeBron for 9+ years (I’m from Akron/Canton area and saw him play in high school several times), I have never seen him leave so many shots short and just have a general disconnect with the flow of the game. I don’t know where to place the blame.
Mike Brown…I’m indifferent. I would say fire him, because we were significantly out-coached in this series and this is the case usually against the elite teams. I think there is one major question that needs to be answered before we decide to fire him, and that is who do we get to replace him??? There aren’t many proven coaches out there and I certainly don’t want a college coach coming in to find out that pro-ball is a whole other level.
I don't agree fully
I think the Cavs would have been better suited to bring Shaq off the bench and incorporate him into the lineup as needed (against Orlando). The Celtics are a staunch defense in the half court, but teams that play defense and then get out and score quickly stomped them (ala Hawks), I just think the Brown didn’t have the cajoneys or the pull to make the correct call and work Shaq back into the fold and allowing chemistry to build. Follow that up with how he handled the Garnett mismatch, and that tells me he just doesn’t have what it takes. Shaq on Garnett? Jamison on him? Either of those two defending him gives the Celtics an absolute advantage at that position, and does nothing popsitive on the offensive side. That is where you either make a change personnel wise, or you plan double teams. He did neither, he just watched Garnett score easily and efficiently. That to me is the biggest black mark on a defensive minded coach. As in the playoffs, even defensive schemes were not adjusted o nthe fly to improve the team’s chances. What is it with Mike Brown and versatile PF’s?
Good stuff. Really good stuff. The chemistry, spacing and flow issues that plagued us in the postseason were no different than those we saw in the first month (remember losing the first two games of the season?) Basketball is a rhythmic endeavor, and never got into one with the playoff set.
I find myself almost equally curious about Varejao’s injuries and the severity of such. How many times the past two years did we say something like, “You know, Varejao is really the second most valuable member of this team”? That was not only not true in the playoffs; it wasn’t even close to true. He didn’t rebound, didn’t back-tap, and generally wasn’t close to himself.
More than anything else, I think we’re looking at a team that was the best in the league in the regular season and would have had the highest probability to win a title… if not for horridly timed injuries.
Mike Brown should have been fired years ago
because of his inability to install a offensive system in which the other players can get into the flow of the game and actually contribute. The reason Phil Jackson teams and Jerry Sloan teams don’t miss a step when their best players come out of the game is because they have a system and they believe in it.
Mike Brown is too busy worrying about over-rotating on defense to do anything other than let Lebron go 1-on-5.
by Hardcore Legend on May 15, 2010 3:29 PM CDT reply actions
I agree, and I’ve always felt this way. I liked him, nice guy, pretty decent coach, and needed to go a while ago.
by johnnyphoenix on May 15, 2010 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I do think that something is wrong with LeBron. He certainly didn’t look like himself in those last three games. But, I still think Mike Brown needs to be fired. You can’t have the best record in the NBA two seasons in a row and lose in the playoffs because of bad matchups. Sometimes the matchups are the coach’s fault and it seems like Brown hasn’t figured out how to make adjustments during the series.
I’m not sure how they could possibly keep him. But then again this is Cleveland and we refused to fire Wedge until two years too late and let Butch Davis hang on for a while, so Brown will probably be back.
Look at Game 6 - It has all the answers
I did a video breakdown of the game and it’s pretty clear the problems are Mike Brown and Mo Williams.
You can check it out here:
http://bballbreakdown.com
I totally 100% agree with this Video
and its conclusions with the one exception being Lebron Leaving I hope not. Mo Williams needs to go I agree and Mike Brown has no clue how to run an offense and for a supposed defensive coach has no idea how to coach it. Fire Mike Brown, trade Mo Williams and trade Antwain no D Jamison and Resign Lebron if we do those things we have a chance next year.
All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist
Baseball’s biggest busts Andy Marte.
by E5 on May 15, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
What SHOULD happen versus what WILL happen
Excellent points, Ancient Mariner. And the possibility of dismissing Coach Brown is certainly a two-edged sword.
Every enterprise, pro sports team and athletic program handles things differently. For example, at the University of Michigan, Bo Schembechler had a terrible record in the postseason. The Wolverines lost in the first seven postseason games they played under Bo. Overall he was 5-12. But Michigan never gave up on him, and he remained their coach until he became their athletic director.
On the other extreme you have situations like the notorious Billy Marin & George Steinbrenner sideshow. It was like a couple continuously getting married and divorced and remarried.
Sometimes change is good, but sometimes the results are surprisingly bad. Another well known “close but no cigar” coach was Marty Schottenheimer. Like Bo Schembechler, Schottenheimer was characterized as an excellent regular season coach who seemed incapable of inspiring his teams to deliver a “knockout punch” in the postseason. However, every time a team fired Schottenheimer—the Browns, the Chiefs, the Chargers—they took a downward plunge, and in many cases did a complete collapse in the regular season rather than a collapse in the postseason.
So should the frustration of not achieving a Championship be grounds for firing a Coach who led his team to the best regular season record for two consecutive years?
I agree with you, Ancient Mariner. Will firing Mike Brown solve the problem? I believe the answer is “No.” Will Mike Brown be fired anyway? I believe the answer is “Yes.”
by BrownsCavaliersIndiansForev on May 15, 2010 6:25 PM CDT reply actions
Thanks, BCIF. Somebody else who comes to mind is Joe Torre, although he did win 4 titles with the Yankees through 2000. After 2000, he has been in the playoffs for ten consecutive years with similar teams as far as loaded with stars, and has gone ten straight years now without winning it all. Did he go from being a good manager to one who can’t get the job done, to a manager whom the game has passed by? When the Red Sox came back from down 3-0 in 2004, was Torre suddenly completely to blame? There are a lot of gray areas, especially trying to run teams where it is sometimes perceived that the inmates run the asylum as far as being disciplined.
by AncientMariner on May 15, 2010 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
As Joe Torre said, "It's A Lot Harder Than It Looks"
Excellent example, Ancient Mariner. Did Joe Torre suddenly forget how to win a championship, or are his words true that “It’s A Lot Harder Than It Looks?”
It is always easy to criticize, and the “armchair coaches” of the world always have the luxury of knowing what DID NOT WORK. But in all humility, all coaches have to admit to an element of “luck” in their successes. The timing, the health of players, the right “guessing” on the part of players.
In the world of baseball, there are (at least) two classic examples. After Bobby Thomson hit his “Shot Heard Round The World” to power the Giants over the Dodgers (“The Giants Win The Pennant! The Giants Win The Pennant! The Giants Win The Pennant!”), pitcher Ralph Branca was relegated to a legacy of failure in the clutch. But 50 years later, at a collector show, Bobby Thomson finally admitted that the Giants had been stealing the signs, and he knew the pitch that Branca was throwing before Thomson hit the pennant winning home run.
And in the 1988 World Series, when everything turned around after Kirk Gibson’s dramatic game winning home run in Game One that ultimately sunk the heavily faovred Oakland Athletics, it was unknown at the time that Gibson, after the Dodger coaching staff had carefully studied films of Dennis Eckersley, had correctly “guessed” the pitch that was on the way. If, in the chess match of baseball, Eckersley had known what pitch Gibson was looking for, he could have thrown something else, and the outcome may have been much different.
One final thought: It is very interesting that Stan Van Gundy of the Magic has declared that Mike Brown is an excellent coach, that the Celtics were a much healthier team in the playoffs than in the regular season, and that the Celtics victory over the Cavs was not really very much of an upset. Nevertheless, Van Gundy predicts that Mike Brown will be a “scapegoat” for the failure of the Cavaliers to advance in the playoffs.
by BrownsCavaliersIndiansForev on May 16, 2010 4:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course Stan Van Gundy wants the Cavs to keep Mike Brown, wouldn’t you want a team to keep a coach if you knew he was your whipping boy?
Maybe that's it, or maybe Van Gundy was telling it like it is
Well, maybe Stan Van Gundy does have that hidden agenda. Or maybe he was simply telling the truth. Boston right now is healthier than they have been in months, and that makes them a very tough opponent.
I wonder what Orlando fans are saying after their Game One “upset” by Boston?
by BrownsCavaliersIndiansForev on May 16, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
of course there is an element of luck.
However, the examples you are using are all from BASEBALL. baseball is a game of statistical chance. there is much more luck involved in baseball than in any other sport (not that it doesn’t take skill).
In the regular season, you can occasionally not play 100% against not a great team and still win if you are good. sometimes you will lose if you do this, but you do not have to bring your A game every night and you can still have one of the best records in the league. the cavs didn’t even always bring their A game during the regular season. The playoffs are a different monster. They require you to bring your A game against a team about as good, for 7 straight games. You can win games without making major adjustments at halftime or other major coaching decisions during the regular season. you can win when you don’t matchup the best. However, in the playoffs, if you do not make the halftime adjustments or do not have good matchups…YOU WILL LOSE. these are the areas Mike Brown seems to lack serious skills, and these areas are key in the playoffs…and this is why he is the Shottenheimer of Basketball…but we would actually be better off without him.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
So we have a plan to fire Mike Brown (and I completely agree), but who do we fill his spot with? I know asked this before, with no response, but I am more interested to see what is available for us. I really have no idea. I don’t want to fire the guy without a better replacement already locked down or at least in mind.
I know this is a stretch, but if we were going to go after a college coach, rather than Calipari I would love to see the Cavs pursue Bruce Pearl, from Tennessee. He has taken a team at a school which only really cared for football and has turned it into a power, and this past season he took a team that had some off-court problems and still managed to survive until the Elite Eight.
by AncientMariner on May 15, 2010 6:44 PM CDT up reply actions
And as far as who’s available…if you are drinking anything, you might want to swallow before reading any further…there is always a coach who held an injury-ravaged team together, a team which endured a ten-game losing streak, and yet gave the Cavaliers all they could handle in the playoffs, including in the last game, when, rather than quit, his team fought back and almost won Game Five…yes, I am thinking that Vinny Del Negro might have earned the respect of the Cavs with the way he kept his team in the series recently completed, even with the Noah distraction. After all, he was fired mostly because of his fight with John Paxson, and that was only over the fact that he had played Noah a few minutes more than the front office had mandated when Noah came back from injury. Maybe this is also a real stretch, but you did ask who might be available.
by AncientMariner on May 15, 2010 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I was thinking Del Negro, too. Probably because he is one of the only coaches available besides Mike Woodson. I really don’t want to try a college coach. Just witnessing coaches try and make the transition and failing horribly has scarred my thoughts on that. Especially if we want to compete right away or at least not dip too far out of contention while I coach tries to figure out how much different the NBA is from the NCAA.
Whether MB stays or goes, Vinny could be the missing piece-coaching wise-to bring in a workable offense…The Bulls ball movement schemes under him were really good
by cavslandrocks on May 15, 2010 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions
but after Derrick Rose, who did he have to work with?
-John Salmons who was not at 100% at anytime he was there really
-Luol Deng
-Kirk Hinrich
-Flip Murray
Honestly, they had maybe the worst collection of offensive talent in the league, including rose…maybe New Jersey was worse but thats about it.
I think in a way, that team overachieved. They should not have made the playoffs…they just have nothing offensively after rose.
They were the 23rd worst FG shooting team and 28th in 3 pointers.
They won through Defense, ball movement, crashing the boards, and smart basketball.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Just a thoght
If MB is sent packing, will Mike Malone and Chris Jent (the guy largely responsible for LeBron’s improved shooting) be canned also? They were, after all, Mike Brown’s choices as assistants. AND if all three are let go/leave to follow MB, how will not having Jent (who has gone almost everywhere LeBron has to coach him in the offseason) affect LeBron’s decision to stay or go, since the two have formed a friendship as well as a player-coach relationship?
I truly think that the Cavs have to wait until LeBrom makes his decision on where to play (sorry, AM..there is just no way around not factoring it into the equation)
I like Mike Brown, really. I thought he instilled a defensive mindset that all top teams have, and for that he should not be dismissed lightly.
But the Cavs’ offense has floundered throughout his tenure, and he went nuts with his rotations in the playoffs. The way the team quit in the last couple of games against the Celtics was the last straw, for me.
Exactly. I gave him the benefit of the doubt for years. I’m done with that. He needs to go.
by darkcorvus70 on May 16, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Absolutely
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/4865/don-t-fire-mike-brown
That link is all that needs to be said. Remember 2 years ago when people were screaming about firing this man because the offense had no flow. Then, there was an excuse. The ball had to be dominated by LeBron at all times because there was no other offensive talent. Two years later, more offensive talent, yet the same offensive system. Not fast enough. Not enough movement. The ball sticks to much.
I’m not sure when it was ok for a coach to only be able to coach one side of the court folks. Yea, he coached under Popovich, you know what else, Romeo Crennel coached under Bellicheck. Stuff like that doesn’t always matter. You want to win a title? Get a coach who can coach BOTH ends. I don’t think that is to much to ask.
I could spend about 2 pages worth typing out his horrible rotations and personnel decisions this series, but what is the point. The real problem is this isn’t “one more chance” he was given that 2 years ago, and then again last year. This is like chance number 3…sorry, that’s to many. Talent has been upgraded, but the offense still looks the same. That falls on him and him alone.
And more
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/391599-enough-is-enough-why-cleveland-should-fire-mike-brown
There, instead of me typing it out there is someone who already has. Exactly my same opinions on the people who should have played. More Varejao, less Shaq, more Moon, less Parker, and waaay more Hickson. Faster pace, run the Celtics out of the building, etc. About 334543 different bloggers posted the same stuff before, during, and after the series, and Mike Brown seems to be the only person in the world who didn’t get it.
MB
finally on his way out, or so i believe.
I have always thought MB should go because
of how predictable he makes the Cavs on offense.
Brown is a great coach, but he is not what the Cavs
needed him to be.
He needed to preach more than defense, i mean
i know the old adage of how “defense wins games” goes
and how much people buy into that simple idea.
But this is also a game of numbers, and numbers do not lie!
Basketball is a game, the object of the game is to win and to win you must have
more points than the other team at the end of the game.
Brown paid very little attention to setting up his team with scoring options and offensive plays that helped offensively limited players to play within their limits effectively.
He asked way too much of certain players on the offensive end, and often times had line ups which were too predictable and had a very hard time scoring because of it.
He also failed miserably with the rotations, even in the regular season!
he was not loyal to certain players on the bench and was not firm with their star Lebron James, Brown was pretty much a push over and never once seemed to have commanded respect like how Rivers does with his Celtics.
Brown is gone… whos next?
"minds sharpens minds, like steel sharpens steel"
I think give him a chance to explain himself.
Probably sounds dumb but I think he should be given a chance to explain himself to the owner. Not only about what happened but what he has learned from it. He should be able to put up a defense about what happened, what he learned and what are his plans to make sure it doesn’t happen again. He didn’t have a lot of playoff experience and now he has one more year. You don’t get good without experience. I think that blowing up this team is not the way to get to the championship. If he doesn’t have the answers and the owner isn’t happy with them, then by all means move on. I think he at least deserves that after 2 great seasons. The playoffs are a whole different breed than the regular season and hopefully the whole team has learned from this year. It takes some time. On the other hand, if he doesn’t have some good answers then I think you have to look around and see what’s out there and if you feel that they can take you past where you have been. It sounds like that is what the owner is doing. It’s a wise thing instead of just blowing up and firing people.
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