Zydrunas Ilgauskas Will Sign With Miami Heat
by John Bena (aka CavsBlogger) on Jul 13, 2010 1:37 PM CDT
in Cleveland Cavaliers in the News
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According to Brian Windhorst's Tweet, Big Z coould be the next former-Cavalier headed south to join LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh in Miami
According to a source, Zydrunas Ilgauskas is close to accepting a contract from the Miami Heat. The Cavs had an offer for Z on the table.
Brian Windhorst
PDcavsinsider
The Cavaliers had an offer on the table to Ilgauskas, and have always said Z is welcome to return, but you have to imagine that Z's age, combined with the way everything went down last season - the trade, 30 days out of basketball, the comeback, the bench - has to give Z enough reason to go to a team with the best chance of winning right now.
This is not another case of a Cleveland athlete leaving for more money or a better situation. This is the case of a player that has given everything to the Cavaliers nearing the end of his career, having earned the right to find the best offer - the offer that might get him an elusive Championship.
Z's agent, Herb Rudoy, has confirmed that Ilgauskas will sign with the Heat, saying that Z would like to return to the Cavaliers organization when his career is over.
As hard as it is, I wish Big Z nothing but the best. A true Class-Act.
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good luck z, personally I think this is bad news for Miami.
A Bosh/aged Z frontcourt has holes to be exposed
Im the poor man's corey maggette!!!
On The Flipside...
An aged Z and aged Shaq wasn’t exactly getting the job done either.
Bosh is in his prime and will settle into his desired position at PF. Outside of Howard, there aren’t many dominant Centers in the East to have to contend with. Noah, Perkins, Lopez, Bogut are all decent, but not overwhelming. Bosh will hold his own at PF and Zydrunas could just be asked to be a role player vet on the Post. They certainly wont need much offense from him that’s for sure.
Shaq wasn't the problem
Z looked like a corpse all of last year. If anything, Shaq should have played more minutes. I agree that Z and Bosh at your 5/4 is a little too weak. Neither of those guys (maybe not even BOTH of those guys) is guarding D12 in the post
I am guessing you didn’t watch much of Lopez last year because he is on the verge of being overwhelming. The problem is on D, Z really has nothing. His strength used to be his above average mobility but his mobility isn’t particularly good anymore. He is more of a finesse player and does fall into the european big man stereotype of being ‘soft’ at times. Really on D, all he has is his length which is the only reason he is still blocking shots with any consistency…plus he can’t really play more than 15-20 minutes a game and his injury problems are back…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Not Quite
I watched Lopez plenty and he does have the skillset to be pretty solid.
What I was pointing to was teams in the East don’t have to go get big time Centers like they used to. The PG and PF have taken more of a focus compared to C’s. We just don’t see the caliber of Ewing, Robinson, Olajuwan, and even (a younger) Shaq anymore. The Heat already have a big man with capable Def and Off ability in Bosh, adding Z is just providing a post threat.
Lopez is surprisingly good, and if you read your own post you even say “he is on the verge of being overwhelming” but not there yet. A solid rookie season and breakout Soph season even on a very weak team does set him up well, but something tells me the Heat won’t be worrying about the Nets for awhile.
Of all their C options to add they went with a Veteran at a discount that has deep Playoff experience and knows James’ game pretty well, wise move no matter how you look at it.
Not meaning to be trolling,
but if the lakers are faced up against the heat, the lakers will beat the heat’s ass.
Bynum has a major advantage over Z simply as he is a younger, more explosive player
Pau has an advantage over Bosh, not as much as an advantage that Bynum has over Z, but he has all the post moves in the book and also can extend his range to take that 10-12 foot jumper that Bosh is in love with.
Lebron will get punked by Ron Artest’s killer defense, but it is true that Ron’s an average offensive player.
Wade is younger and flashier and the Mamba is older and less dull, but with wade, all he does is drive and shoot the layup all day, or he drives and dishes. But the mamba has all of the jumpers and the post moves that there are.
And lakers Bench with Odom, Ebanks, Caracter, Blake and Shannon (hopefully) will kill whatever crappy bench that Miami can put together with 7 mil.
It's Kobe's world, but Lebron's just living in it. -- Czheck
Man I can’t wait to see what the trolls have to say about this.
Good luck buddy. Sorry we jerked you around last year to appease a whiney brat. You will always be a Cavalier to me.
by jsneides on Jul 13, 2010 1:51 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Not trollish, just true.
I think you guys had to know in your heart of hearts that Miami was going to be able to fill out their roster with some decent players at discount. Be they with older talents looking for a ring, players looking for a chance to benefit from playing with Wade and LeBron, one year deal players that want to be showcased, etc.
No state income tax, great winter weather, great looking women abound, the beach, lots of diversity, lots of drugs, a low pressure (from locals anyway) environment. It is fact that Miami is a choice destination for NBA players as it is a city conducive to a lot of these NBA’s player’s lifestyles.
This is not the last Z type player that Riley will sign before the start of the 2010-2011 season. There will be plenty of players that will take less money for a shot at a ring in Miami.
Pork Chop Williamson is really decent really.
please sign TMac
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions
great winter weather, great looking women abound, the beach, lots of diversity, lots of drugs, a low pressure (from locals anyway) environment. It is fact that Miami is a choice destination for NBA players as it is a city conducive to a lot of these NBA’s player’s lifestyles.
‘Z’ doesn’t care about any of that right now…so stop with the Miami knob-slobbing…He knows he’s only got about 1 more year and Miami gives him his last, best (and not guaranteed, remember), shot to win a ring.
by johnnyphoenix on Jul 13, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
He might care about some of those things, but I know other NBA players sure do.
Pork Chop Williamson is really decent really.
Lot's of drugs?
I just don’t picture Big Z being a big druggie… I mean nothing really surprises me with professional athletes anymore, but I really can’t see drugs as a motivating factor for Z. If you said Josh Howard, then maybe…
The drugs was a bit of humor, but also somewhat true. Lots of pot heads in the NBA. They’d be better off in Denver and California where they can sell weed in most retail strip centers.
Pork Chop Williamson is really decent really.
Ad agency Crispin Porter & Bogusky moved their HQ from Miami to Denver because of better weed.
True story.
Blake: Thanks to you, I am damaged beyond repair!!
yeah…pot is impossible to find outside of Cali, Colorodo, and Miami right? Nope…I know someone who GROWS pot…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
oh man, you know someone who GROWS POT!?!?
you probably know a lot more people that have/still do grow pot than you realize.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jul 14, 2010 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
probably. I just have a friend who I know grows…so yea…pot is SO hard to find in cleveland.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Yeah... Denver
Being a former Clevelander (and OU Grad), and now living in Denver, let me just say the pot thing has become a completely different animal. It’s one thing to be able to make some calls to get some, or have a random guy growing. It’s one thing to go to a shop down the street (and they are ALL OVER), say you hurt yourself skiing, and then having a legal means of getting massive varieties, and even all sorts of edible options.
It’s freaking crazy. It is kind of scary because you pretty much get put on a “list” (one reason I haven’t taken the plunge), and who knows where that can haunt you down the line.
Go Z, breaks my heart to see him leave, but I’ve come to terms with it- especially if the cavs want to run as much as they did in the summer league game.
No state income tax, great winter weather, great looking women abound, the beach, lots of diversity, lots of drugs, a low pressure (from locals anyway) environment. It is fact that Miami is a choice destination for NBA players as it is a city conducive to a lot of these NBA’s player’s lifestyles.
Not sure if the income tax thing will affect Z all that much. He is playing for peanuts compared to what he’s made in his career, he will still live in Cleveland and file Ohio taxes. It’s just not that much of a selling point. To anyone.
I’ll take my snow, you can have 85 and humid. Yuk. Drugs? Do you think there is a lack of drugs in Ohio? Is that really a selling point for anyone? Low pressure? Z will have more pressure on him in Miami than in Cleveland, where he has already proven his worth and is generally loved. Although, Miami doesn’t care about their sports teams, so maybe that’s what you are getting at. Worst professional fan-base outside of SoCal. None of this really applies to Z and I think you are way off in the city’s influence on other NBA’ers. Riley, LeBron, and Wade are the only reasons players will go to Miami.
The place is LA-lite. And I think LA is the single most miserable place on earth.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 13, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions
LA vs MIA
When they play each other in the 2011 NBA finals, it will be one late arriving crowd vs the other.
And yes, that is what I was getting at with the pressure talk.
Z can live where ever he wants in the offseason, but it’s nice to be in Miami when its 75 degrees everyday from Thanksgiving to April 30th.
Pork Chop Williamson is really decent really.
some decent players
ehh…I like Z and all, but mostly out of loyalty. At times, he looked dead out there on the court and yes, he would be better than a lot of guys you could get, but not by a ton. At this point in his career, he isn’t significantly better than a Scott Pollard who is a FA.
great looking women abound
because every single girl, not only in cleveland, but in other cities, are a bunch of “uggo’s”…
great winter weather
you know…players to have homes in Miami b/c of the weather, but that doesn’t mean they want to work there full time.
lots of diversity, lots of drugs
…because there aren’t any african-americans in ohio so the black players feel left out…and drugs are impossible to find in ohio from what I have heard…No wait…I legit know people who could get me anything they have in Miami, I am just not into that stuff.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Scott Pollard? Really? Z can still hit an open 20 footer, can still get a handful of rebounds because of his size and protect the rim. Pollard is a dopey thug that is smaller, weaker and flat out garbage for his entire career. Z’s absolute worst season was multiple times better than Pollard’s best. Z is a 7th man on the best rosters in the league right now, a starter for a majority of teams. Pollard hasn’t been anything but last guy off the bench since 2006 and even then just barely. He’s been retired for 2 years. Significantly better? Put it this way, I’m 6’1 with no ups. I am closer to a Scott Pollard’s worth to an NBA team as a Center than Poallard is to Zydrunas right now.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 13, 2010 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Z is a 7th man on the best rosters in the league right now, a starter for a majority of teams
I completely disagree. From what I saw of him last year, I would say he would not at ALL start for a majority of teams. he would start for teams that don’t have a center, but teams that have anyone legimite, I don’t see him as a starter. I saw a huge dropoff in Zs production last year when he was healthy. Z had the worst year of his career, his injury problems are back, he is now fairly immobile, and he is 35…I expect him to get worse, not better…
Yeah, scott pollard was a bad example. I just really went onto hoopshype and picked out a guy who was listed as being a free agent this past season…I was just trying to think of a marginal guy on a roster as a big man because that is what I think Z is right now…maybe better would be Tony Battie if healthy.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
He twists his ankle and his injury problems are back? Nah.
Z’s drop in production mirrored his drop in playing time and role with the team. His mobility was never a big part of his game. He can still hit the open J, still post up, and he is still 7’3, making him a decent rebounder and shot blocker by default.
The bottom line is that there are still only a handful of really good NBA centers. Z starts with the heat right now. Z starts with the Cavs right now.
Of course he is on the downside of his career. And he is not an elite center any more. But I expect him to contribute to the Heat next year.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
Z’s drop in production mirrored his drop in playing time
but even if you try to eliminate playing time as a factor (how he did per 36 minutes) he still had by far the worst year of is career. His shooting %, block per 36, and steals per 36 were the lowest of his career by a significant amount and his fouls per game were up. when a guy is fouling more, it often means he is less effective on D and doesn’t have the quickness or ability to make plays he used to. His PER was also down drastically, to a mediocre 12.
His mobility was never a big part of his game
he was never an extremely mobile guy but I considered his mobility as a strength, even after the knee injuries way back. He in many ways is like the classic european big man. Good range, good length, good mobility and fundamentals, but not great strength inside and not amazing at battling there…On D, he doesn’t have much mobility (which was shown in his increase in fouls) and he was never all that powerful on D.
In every statistical category, Z is down and is by far having the worst year of his career.
Z starts with the heat right now. Z starts with the Cavs right now.
for the heat, yes because of a lack of a better option…but what does that probe. Right now, Bill Russell could start at C for the Heat b/c of a lack of a better option. I don’t completely agree that he would start for the cavs. take away my emotional attachment to Z, I would likely have him come off the bench for the cavs…and only start because i believe that Andy is better as a 6th man than as starting…but it is no guarantee Z would start at center for us. Andy right now is a significantly better option.
At this point, I may take ben wallace over Z…at least he is still an effective defender at times. There are many guys that may not be what you call “really good nba centers” that I would still take over Z…because Z isn’t in that category in the first place.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Disregarding the rest of this comment, Z can NOT still post up.
by Chemo on Jul 14, 2010 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with the rest of your post.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 13, 2010 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
There is something special about a player who has only played with 1 team his whole career...
I always respected Reggie Miller so much for it.
Guess Ill sadly have to cross Big Z off that list soon =(
by ap3604 on Jul 13, 2010 1:56 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
While I agree with the sentiment
The current free agency system doesn’t really foster it. Every current vet star has either switched teams or seriously talked about it, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, David Robinson all played in a much different (financially) league. Maybe we’ll see a return to it, but right now there just isn’t enough benefit to it.
by giantAppleCore on Jul 13, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I can’t fathom why Z would want to follow LeQuit to Miami. He always seemed smart enough. Can’t he see that the reason he was shipped to Washington in the first place was to placate LeBrat? I can understand wanting to win, and feeling hurt enough by what happened last year to want to move on, but to follow the guy who couldn’t cowboy up with a 2-1 lead?
No one can take anything away from what Z has done while he was here, and at least he is leaving with his class intact, but this just doesn’t make sense.
Every pessimist thinks himself a realist. In the case of Cleveland sports fans, they are probably right.
So what are we doing? Anything? We had interest in Al Jefferson, now he’s with the Jazz. We had interest in Barbosa, now he’s going to Toronto? Is anything going to happen?
wondering the same thing. shaq is possibly going to dallas, maybe we could send them parker also for the last year of caron butler’s contract. we need some scoring somewhere.
I root for Cleveland and anyone playing the Miami Heat
i like that idea
Im the poor man's corey maggette!!!
by Chucky Brown on Jul 13, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
makes sense for dallas because they can then still have the MLE salary and they want to use more of roddy beaubois at both guard positions. and they gain a veteran role player/defender/shooter.
I root for Cleveland and anyone playing the Miami Heat
ive become cool with the idea of not taking on any crazy contracts and working with what we have for a year, then start making moves next winter
however
I think we should sign Q.Woods, Lowry and Im interested in seeing how Eyenga fares in the summer league
and Z better get booed as loudly as LBJ when the HEat come to the town or Rev.Jackson will call fall for boycotts
Im the poor man's corey maggette!!!
1st cavs summer league game is at 6 tonite on nbatv. we got two centers on the team that i am interested in seeing, one of them should make the regular roster i think. nathan jawai and maciej lampe.
I root for Cleveland and anyone playing the Miami Heat
I am EXTREMELY interested in Jawai. he has been compared to shaq and although he is not going to be shaq, he has that rare combination of ridiculous size/strength (he is 6’10 and 275 pounds) with above average mobility in the paint and soft hands for passes. If he can polish his game and stay healthy, he could become a very good player.
Lampe seems like a shorter, Z Clone. European center with good range and fundamentals, but somewhat ‘passive’ and ‘soft’…but can play facing basket or back to the basket. With him, I just worry b/c he already fizzled out in the league, but is still relatively young
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
glad that Z wont be back, he hasnt been a viable player since 2007
I root for Cleveland and anyone playing the Miami Heat
Z gave everything he had in 14 years with the Cavs. I don’t blame him for chasing a ring with only a year or two before retiring. Of course I don’t want the Heat to succeed, but I don’t fault Z for trying.
Agreed. Him I have no hard feelings for.
by darkcorvus70 on Jul 13, 2010 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish Z all the best.
The heat will still be my least favorite team, but I hope Z does well. 32ppg, 14reb, 7 ast for Z, 12.3ppg, 4reb, 6 ast for Mr. James! L0L… right…
Don't be afraid to fight for your rights!
Good luck, Z.
You’ll always be a Cav in my eyes. He’s given us everything he has and has the right to leave.
Z will without a doubt leave us in the classiest way possible and not be a douche like King Crab. I still love him.
I would love to see him win a ring with anyone besides the Heat. Seriously, if he went to the Lakers I wouldn’t mind seeing them win the title just because of him. With the Heat, I just hate them too much to want him to win a title there.
I live in Cincinnati. I'm a fan of the Cleveland Cavaliers and Cincinnati sports teams. Besides UC, I'm a Xavier fan for basketball. I also like the Ohio State Buckeyes for all sports.
My name is Tyler. So I guess now you know about me.
Should go after Al Harrington. He’s a great scorer and solid rebounder. Not much of a defender but I think he’d be a huge help.
So far Gilbert hasn’t delivered on the promise of reloading this team. Teams snatching up assets left and right.
Pass…Harrington is a me-first guy who just doesn’t try on D and is more of a volume scorer. I also am wary about a Me-First guy who has been on 3 teams in the past 4 seasons, including time on those dreadful knicks. his shooting %s have declined, he is likely demanding way too much money (was just making 10 mil and personally, thats too much), and he is already 30. He is an average rebounder for his size and position. He has a career PER of under 15 (15 is considered solid). He also was terrible last year in win shares (how many wins contributed)…he had less than Z who was playing less games…and personally, I think last year was Zs last decent year.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Can't blame Z after how he got done last season and all.
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 3:10 PM CDT reply actions
to go out and sign adam morrison?
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Current Roster
Gibson
Green
Hickson
Jamison
Moon
Parker
Powe
Telfair
Varajeo
West
Williams
That is the current roster. At best this is a 35 win team. Gilbert and Grant have to make some moves to get this roster a star.
by gujuknick on Jul 13, 2010 3:26 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
who is out there though?
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Hey T'Wolves fan here
Rebuilding sucks, especially when you have an owner who likes to re:re:re:rebulid, What Lebron did was lame IMO.
I know this won’t be popular but Arenas, shouldn’t be too difficult to get, and he will likely be back to his pre-injury self soon. The talent is out there, if your owner wants it.
True about Arenas....
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Not sure whether he can get back to his pre-injury self, but Arenas shouldn’t be too hard to get, and we could use a shooting guard.
I can’t imagine we should be so lucky as to have it happen, but I think that an effort needs to be made to pry Carmelo Anthony out of Denver. This team was built to complement a star, and Melo might be able to be convinced that he could prove himself to be at least as good as Fink James by taking the same team that LeBrat was too afraid to lead to another level. Also since this is the last year of his contract, he might be willing to sign on for a longer deal given the upcoming CBA changes and potential lockout next season.
A pipe dream I know, but without fitting a star of close to LeQuit’s caliber into the empty slot, Gilbert and Grant may as well commence a fire sale, ditch everyone over 26, and reboot. At least then our draft picks will be worth something.
Every pessimist thinks himself a realist. In the case of Cleveland sports fans, they are probably right.
Sorry but
i just don’t see you guys getting Melo, it would be great if you somehow could pull it off and have your own big 3, with Paul, Melo and good big but I just don’t see it. Hopefully someone takes the Heat down hard, I’m so sick of Lebron’s arrogance.
Agreed. I didn’t mention getting Paul, because now he is going to be represented by LRMR, and the Cavs should refuse to negotiate with those guys ever again, under any circumstances.
That said, CP3 in Cleveland would force LeBum to constantly second guess whether leaving was the right idea. I want him to perpetually torture himself with doubts, force his game, and wind up LeChucking from 24 feet in desperation. That way, Bosh and Wade will tire of him and team chemistry will go toxic, derailing the whole easy ring project.
I know that it will probably happen eventually, but I hope he never gets the title that he felt he had to desert Cleveland for. LeBoner needs put in his place, and I imagine that will only happen if he beats himself.
Every pessimist thinks himself a realist. In the case of Cleveland sports fans, they are probably right.
Uhhhh. . . . how exactly are they going to get a star? There aren’t any available to sign, and the Cavs don’t have the assets to trade for one. You can’t just magically get one.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions
the cavs have a couple of expiring and soon-to-be-expiring contracts to offer up.
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
You’re not going to get a star player for that.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions
but it got us Antawn Ja......wait
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
No hocus pocus is required, and no one said it had to be a free agent. All of the stars there are already gone. The trade exception of almost 16 million, plus expiring contracts, and conceivably a Shaq S&T, definitely make a trade possible. Admittedly, the fact that we need it to be a star, something that no team wants to give up, makes it very unlikely.
All I said was that an effort needs to be made. Every time we played Denver, you could see it in the way Melo played that he wanted to be seen as being on LeDouche’s level. We need to try to find someone with major league talent and harness that ultra competitive feeling in them in order to win with the nucleus that we have, or go into serious rebuilding and hope the lottery balls bounce our way. I doubt it is possible to land a top flight star myself, but I guarantee Gilbert would be willing to pay through the nose to get one right away, and really open the purse strings if they could be enticed to stay for longer than this season.
Without such a move, the team is going to be just as demoralized as we are, and may as well just be dismantled.
Every pessimist thinks himself a realist. In the case of Cleveland sports fans, they are probably right.
Tank for a couple years, hope Durant/James/Bryant type falls into your lap.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 13, 2010 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Unless you’re Los Angeles, where Pau Gasol just drops into your lap for a bucketfull of dross.
"Facebook is bad news. It and Jason Donald both crush dreams." - JRontherim
by woodsmeister on Jul 14, 2010 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions
They got a big trade exception from the Heat deal so I’m sure there are teams out there willing to unload assets. Minnesota just gave Al Jefferson away for nothing (protect first rounder and an additional first rounder).
I would say right now here are the playoff teams for next year. Cavs need some starpower to get ahead of teams like NY and Detroit.
Orlando
Miami
Boston
Chicago
Atlanta
Milwaukee
Detroit
New York
Exactly. Felton, Chandler, Gallinari, Amare, Turiaf is a solid lineup when you consider D’antoni’s offense. They still have Anthony Randolph and Azubuike off the bench.
I don’t care about trying to move up to the 6th or 7th seed. That’s not going to do anything for us. We need to rebuild the roster.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Its good to see you want that but do you think that’s what Gilbert wants? he’s going to go from winning 60 games in back to back years to a team that doesn’t even go the playoffs?
I don’t know what he wants, but I know what he should do if he’s smart. Spending a bunch of money to get marginally better is dumb.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
its not about spending money to get marginally better. if the cavs got iggy, they would be back in contention for one of the top seeds in the east. there are guys to be had out there. and its grants job to find them.
last thing this team needs is another decade of irrelevance.
If you think that the Cavs can replace LeBron with Iguadola and still be one of the top seed in the East then you’re crazy.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Last thing this team needs is to spiral into a decade of irrelevance by MacGyvering a 6th seed team together for the next two years.
I like what they’re doing so far, e.g. nothing. Don’t force bad contracts onto this team right now. I’d like to see them parlay some of the expiring contracts for draft picks, targeting lottery teams in money trouble. The more lottery picks we can acquire, the more shot we have at a future star.
Art Modell gives me a hard one
Uhhhh . . . who said anything about a decade of irrelevance?
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions
sounds about right. It takes time to get to the 15-25 win category. Then you have to get lucky in the lottery and/or the draft. I’m really at a loss as to any other viable blue print.
I suppose you can pull off a Miami/Boston-style Big-3 off-season with enough money and cap space in a couple years. But even then, you need to have one guy already on the team.
I’m so disenchanted with the NBA right now. I see no way they competitive. Playoffs? sure, that’s easy in the NBA- 50% of the league can compete for that. But only the top 4 or so teams have a shot at a title, and I don’t see us coming close to that any time soon.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 13, 2010 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, which I why I said that we need to rebuild and hope to get lucky in the lottery. I don’t want to spend big money to stay mediocre for the next few years. The part I disagreed with is that rebuilding means a decade of irrelevance. A decade is a long time, and you can rebuild your entire roster in half that time.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions
You can rebuild your roster in 1 year. But it is all for marginal improvement if you don’t have, as Pluto puts it in The Franchise, “the guy”.
Those guys come around once every 3 or 4 years. And it requires a bunch of luck to get them/identify them.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
The only way i see it is if everything falls into place perfect for the cavs. First the Hornets need to implode and decide that its time to trade chris paul. Then the cavs have to be the team that pulls off the trade and gets CP3. THen the cavs have to hit the summer of 2012 and convince Dwight Howard to come to cleveland in order to play with chris paul. If a team could put D12 together with an elite PG and a pretty good wing scorer you might be able to beat the heat. I suppose it all depends on where D12 wants to play, since he is pretty much the dominant big man in the game right now.
"Smokescreen."
It’s going to be really hard to get a star free agent to come to Cleveland.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 14, 2010 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions
not if you’ve already traded for a star PG.
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Jul 14, 2010 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions
That may help, but it’s still going to be pretty hard. Most athletes just don’t want to play in Cleveland if there are other options available. It pains me to say that, but it’s true. Dwight Howard is not going to leave Orlando for Cleveland.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 14, 2010 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah pretty much. You’d have to have a guy who had some sort of special connection with Cleveland. Someone who it wasn’t just another city to. Thats what we had with Bernie Kosar and thats what we wanted to have in LeBron. A star athlete who understood why Cleveland is a special place. LeBron’s “Decision” shattered that conception we had built of him and thats where I think a lot of the anger comes from.
Still, I could see selling NBA stars on a determined owner with deep pockets, especially if you could make that one big sign and trade and get a star like CP3 to commit long term like LeBron wouldn’t. However hitting that blockbuster trade is easier said than done.
"Smokescreen."
This pisses me off beyond belief.
I don’t care about LeBron, I’ve hated that douche since 2006 and saw it coming a mile away… but this guy… just feels like a low blow.
Z’s value to the Cavs is only emotional at this point. He’s had a great career here; let him chase his ring with the Fellowship down south.
Art Modell gives me a hard one
by gahnki on Jul 13, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I had a knot in my stomach when I heard Z was leaving. Just pain. With LeBron it was anger. This is just sad.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 13, 2010 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions
So, um
any good news ever going to come the Cavs way?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 13, 2010 3:56 PM CDT reply actions
Players to target
Andre Iguodala, Jason Richardson, Vince Carter. I know people will hate idea of Carter, but he only has a year left on his deal and might be playing for another contract.
agree on everything but Carter.
Old knees, hardly any ups left and has never played D or had a good jumper. I’d take Iggy though since we need someone tall(er) and athletic that can make their own shot/slash to the basket.
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Philly would probably let Iggy go for a lot less now that they have turner. And they’re already paying out the nose with the elton brand deal.
I'd rather have ET, but i'd take Iggy for an epiring contract or two
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
throw in Andy as well
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
scott’sinterview during the summer league game seemed to indicate Andy wasnt really in his plans
Im the poor man's corey maggette!!!
by Chucky Brown on Jul 13, 2010 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree but I would guess at this point, he is virtually untouchable…
@gujuknick (don’t feel like leaving two comments). I totally agree with that. I heard rumors he may be traded before they took turner…they are a rebuilding team who likely want to get rid of their big contracts. No one will take brand off their hands though.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Iggy, Definitely. Not terribly expensive, plus he is still young, can create his own shot, and is unselfish.
Richardson I would take over Carter, but both have only one year left. With carter out of those 3, you get the worst passer, worst defender, oldest player, least consistent shooter, and worst team player. Definitely would pass on him…
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Why in the heck would Orlando get rid of Carter? They’re trying to win a championship and he’s one of their main players.
Have you thought about anything you’re posting here? You can’t just wish for any player you want to come.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, these posters can wish all they want, but it doesn’t mean the players will arrive in CLE.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 13, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I would be the last person to say that we should try for Carter, but it seems pretty clear why Orlando might want to get rid of him. He almost completely disappeared during the Boston series. Their best games were the ones that he spent the most time riding the pine. He has turned out to be half of what they thought they were getting when they landed him last year. They have to be feeling buyer’s remorse right now. If they thought they could get something of value for his overpriced ass, they would snap it up in a heart beat.
Every pessimist thinks himself a realist. In the case of Cleveland sports fans, they are probably right.
This got brought up by someone already on a sidenote
What about Gilbert Arenas, the Anti-Lebron? I’d take him personally….
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 4:56 PM CDT reply actions
what's Antawn making a year now?
I’m sure if Washington WANTS top get rid of him, they figure out a way to eat some of that salary.
I’m not sure he’s “toxic” either. The only thing I heard about him was the gun thing, which isn’t the best, but other than that nothing. I’m not saying it;‘s OK, or that it doesn’t concern me, I’m just saying that’s all he’s really done. Delonte has his issues too….
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
He's a bum
I think there’s a limit on how much of the contract you can eat unlike baseball. its a relatively small amount compared the the $80M he’s due.
talk to any wizards fans and they’ll tell you he’s toxic. doesn’t practice hard, his teammates hated him and then the gun incident topped everything. i have friends who are diehard wizards fans and they are praying he gets traded or gets bought out. they don’t want him anywhere near john wall.
and why would you even want a guy who’s had two very serious knee injuries, is owed $80M and brought a gun into his arena and lied about it. believe me, the cavs don’t need that.
Forgot about the knees
I just want someone that can score. I don’t see anyone like that on the current roster…
Close. It only counts in Horseshoes, hand grenades and Penn State football.
by SouthBayBuckeye on Jul 13, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
He has a laundry list of issues that makes Delonte look good.
-Foul Prone AND turnover prone. commits a lot of fouls for a guard, and coughs it up a lot.
-Injury prone. over the last 3 season has played in 47 games and had injury problems before that. for his whole career has only played in a bit more than 60% of possible games. Had injury problems before the last few seasons.
-Attitude problems. Lets forget the gun thing because we already know that. He was a talented guy but a headcase to coach and could be a locker room distraction. In some ways, he is (in football) T.O, Meets Plaxico Burress. Locker room cancer plus stupid gun activities.
-Good shooter but takes way too many bad shots. He is an amazing pure shooter but the stats don’t show it. His FG% in his last healthy season was under 42%…that is below average, ESPECIALLY for a shooter. He is a volume scorer who is a good shooter but has too much confidence in his skills and takes way to many bad shots…
-Porous defender who is a liability on every possession. There were years where his D-rating was higher than his O-Rating (so if he was involved in every play, the other team would score more than he would).
To me, he seems a lot like a smaller ricky davis with more injury problems. A great scorer but he thinks about himself too much and drags down the team by taking 20 shots a game…they also are not good on D, Turnover prone, Take bad shots, and have attitude problems…I don’t want another ricky davis.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
For a laugh
Off-topic, but this made me laugh
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/07/13/david-kahn-at-it-again-ships-jefferson-away/
Hilarious
Pretty spot on too. The only objection I have is that Kevin Garnett was going to leave a year later anyway, so something was gotten for him (a lot better than nothing), it was just squandered by Kahn
by giantAppleCore on Jul 13, 2010 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions
It's hard to hate on Z but...
Hope you fail in Miami too…enjoy being the 12th man on a team of spoiled adolescents.
you realize wade, lebron and bosh played on team USA right? they brought home the gold. they know how to play together and how to run a team. i don’t understand why people think they’re going to fail. any rational basketball knows that team will dominate.
mike miller and haslem are their first two guys off the bench for godsakes!!!
Mike Miller sucks and how is Haslem a bench player?
by kingcrimson2 on Jul 13, 2010 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
becuase Z will probably start at C and haslem will come off the bench. mike miller sucks? the guy shot 50% from the field and 48% from 3pt range last year. on this team you and I would be great.
Mad props to Z, but his glory days are behind him and we should be so lucky as to see him start for that team. Even with the current Cavs roster he would have to come off of our bench. If that is all that they can come up with, then Boston, Chicago, Orlando, and the Lakers will eat them alive.
Every pessimist thinks himself a realist. In the case of Cleveland sports fans, they are probably right.
Just stop.
If Cavs fans found out 5 minutes from now that Miller and Haslem were coming to Cleveland instead of Miami they’d be extolling the virtues of those 2 players and how they’re going to end up with a top 4 seed in the East and giggling about the demise of the Heat without these two great team players.
Puh-leeze.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Jul 13, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I’d take Haslem easily. Mike Miller, no takes. He could score 5 years ago on garbage teams, big whoop.
Z may technically start but can’t see him logging more than 20 minutes a game. He looked old and slow all last year. So who plays bulk of the minutes at center for Miami? Haslem, no?
by kingcrimson2 on Jul 13, 2010 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd assume so.
Unfortunately for them it looks like they’re going to be undersized and understrengthed in the low post but I think they make up for it in the offense that Bosh & LeBron will give them.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Jul 13, 2010 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions
That doesn’t happen around here. We just let them come here and take over our blog by bashing the Cavs.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Seriously. The NCAA should investigate this blog for lack of institutional control.
Art Modell gives me a hard one
by gahnki on Jul 13, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And what exactly makes me a "troll"?
Because I have an opinion that differs from yours?
I’m not some Heat fan here celebrating your demise. I’m not name-calling or trash talking. I’m here offering my opinion as a basketball fan on the most important topic this offseason.
Like Cavs fans wouldn’t be talking up Miller, Haslem and Big Z if they were going to Cleveland instead of Miami?
Would Big Z be have as many “holes” to expose next season if he were doing it with the Cavs instead of the Heat?
Would “LeQuitter” be just that if he had re-signed? Or would you all still be “witnesses” to the King?
I understand the pain that the fan base is going through, but the rampant hypocrisy is a bit much.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Jul 13, 2010 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, we are all so glad that you came here to “educate” us poor fools who can’t objectively evaluate our own players. Thank you for that. We’re lucky to have you here.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, if I am "educating" you, I'm glad I could help!
But that’s not what I’m trying to do. I simply asked a question. A question that it seems disturbed you enough to avoid answering it and offer a sarcastic response instead.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Jul 13, 2010 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Just stop. If Cavs fans found out 5 minutes from now that Miller and Haslem were coming to Cleveland instead of Miami they’d be extolling the virtues of those 2 players and how they’re going to end up with a top 4 seed in the East and giggling about the demise of the Heat without these two great team players.
Puh-leeze.
That’s a d-bag comment. If you don’t see the problem with that then you’re blind.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Or is it an honest comment to d-bag postings from fans that are angry and frustrated that their franchise player chose to ply his trade elsewhere?
The people posting on this blogspot WOULDN’T be celebrating Miami’s failings if they were able to sign two players that miami were trying to sign?
Or would they be finding so many faults and “holes” in these same player’s games if they were wearing a Cavs jersey instead of a Heat next season?
Come now.
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Jul 13, 2010 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Let me tell you what I wouldn’t do — I wouldn’t go to another team’s blog and tell them how to behave or how to act or call them hypocrites because I think I know their opinions on everything. I’m not an a-hole like that.
I don’t give a damn who Miami signs. I don’t care about them at all. I’m here to discuss the Cavs, not any other team. The Cavs weren’t even trying to sign any of those players, so why the hell should I care about them at all? And don’t tell me what I would say in some given situation. You don’t know anything about me or my opinions.
Go back to your team’s blog and quit bothering us.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions
most Cavs fans believe Z’s game is gone
Im the poor man's corey maggette!!!
by Chucky Brown on Jul 13, 2010 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Because I have an opinion that differs from yours?
right now it seems like your opinion is that all cavs fans are hypocritical and you base it on asking questions like they are fact but not even waiting for an answer by jumping to conclusions…to me, that is borderline trolling.
Would Big Z be have as many "holes" to expose next season if he were doing it with the Cavs instead of the Heat
actually yeah…but I guess all cleveland fans are homers and none of us can objectively judge one of our teams, right?
I understand the pain that the fan base is going through, but the rampant hypocrisy is a bit much.
but what you are doing is asking loaded questions and assuming the answer that you want, which fits the cavs fans being hypocritical…in fact, most people posting on here as cavs fans, form what I have seen them post, would not fit into the answers that you use to call us hypocrites.
Like Cavs fans wouldn’t be talking up Miller, Haslem and Big Z if they were going to Cleveland instead of Miami?
meh…miller would only start because of a severe lack of a better option right now at swingman. The way our current roster stands, I see haslem as being our 4th big man (after Jamison, JJ, and Andy)
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
Clearly LeQuitter wouldn’t be LeQuitter if he had re-signed…in that case he wouldn’t have “quit”. Unless you mean Game 5, but one game, no matter how terrible, does not a nickname make. Personally, I don’t want to ever call him by his given or self-given names again…especially since “Le” lends itself to so many possibilities.
Also I wouldn’t be so down on Fink James had he stayed, because then we would all have witnessed him manning up, realizing he had unfinished business to attend to, and putting something bigger than himself first. That is what makes someone deserve the title of “King”, not a selfish desire for less pressure and finding the path of least resistance to a ring.
I would be happy if we were getting either Miller or Haslem, although it would depend on who we gave up to get them, and never said an untoward word about either of their games.
I also wouldn’t mind having Z back for sentimentality’s sake, but anyone who thinks that he would be the starter is kidding themselves. Varejao at 4-5 inches shorter can do everything Z can, except shoot from outside, and would bring 10x the energy in the process.
Every pessimist thinks himself a realist. In the case of Cleveland sports fans, they are probably right.
“Remember kids……… petty and cheap shot-ish doesn’t make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish.”
Art Modell gives me a hard one
So now facts and different opinions are petty and cheap shot-ish?
Is that what you’re trying to say?
Or do you just like my sig that much?
"Remember kids......... petty and cheap shot-ish doesn't make you a true fan, it just makes you petty and cheap shot-ish."
by Themanthemyththelegend on Jul 13, 2010 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Please explain how telling us how you think we would react to a hypothetical situation constitutes “facts”?
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions
You realize that the first time those guys played together on Team USA they brought home the Bronze, right? They aren’t getting the rest of the successful Team USA (Kobe, Kidd etc.) this time. There are more than a handful of other teams with the firepower to compete. Also, rational basketball fans know a team calls for 5 players on the floor, so Haslem and Miller won’t be coming off the bench.
I have no trouble believing that the three amigos will win a championship eventually, barring career ending injuries, but it is also possible that there might be chemistry problems that derail the effort (fingers crossed). LeFink may never get a ring, especially if they listen to you and decide to play just the 3 of them.
Every pessimist thinks himself a realist. In the case of Cleveland sports fans, they are probably right.
chalmers is the PG. Z is starting center (and i agree he’ll play limited minutes). that means miller and haslem will come off the bench.
but this isn’t about the heat. its about the cavs. the question is do you rebuild through the draft and start from scratch or leverage all the picks and cheap assets the cavs have today and acquire talent via trade.
Only leverage if...
You can get back a top 10 and a top 25 player… If not, try to see what you’ve got and rebuild.
Kudos to you for not taking my joke to heart. I felt bad after I wrote it, since there is no sarcasm font. Back to basketball…I don’t believe that Spoelstra has the stones to have Wade and LeEgo on the floor and demand that the offense will be run through Mario Chalmers. LeBrag will be the PG, switching on defensive to cover a taller guy.
I still don’t see anyway that Z starts. Not on the Cavs, not on the Heat either. 20 minutes sounds about right, but all off the bench either to spell Haslem or Bosh, or should they find themselves in foul trouble. He is a spot up shooter and sometime offensive rebounder, not a serious low post presence, incapable of running with this team, and not a starter anywhere at this point.
Agreed also that we should be focused on the Cavs. My vote is for trying to land a LeGone replacement until the season starts. If nothing happens by that time, then shift into rebuilding mode and trade away all older assets to contending teams during the course of the year.
Every pessimist thinks himself a realist. In the case of Cleveland sports fans, they are probably right.
you realize wade, lebron and bosh played on team USA right? they brought home the gold. they know how to play together and how to run a team.
because playing in 5-10 games in the olympics with different rules and an ALL STAR supporting cast if those 3 falter is exactly the same as them doing it pretty much themselves for 82 games and the playoffs. Winning doesn’t usually translate like that. plenty of guys have been able to win in the olympics but falter in the NBA and vice versa…
and haslem is decent, but Miller is a bit overrated. he has always been the guy who puts up solid numbers on garbage teams. He is also going to be 31 next season, and has already developed some significant injury issues. Many swingmen break down around the age of 30 and maybe miller has one more decent season, but that may be it. Much of Miami’s building (mike miller, Z) is getting guys who will be good this season, but they are screwed if they don’t win this season.
I teach good life choices. That’s why I almost didn’t graduate High School.
My concern is that if the product the Cavs put on the court is bad, that will mean the team will earn less revenue. If they earn less revenue that’s less money that Gilbert will spend on the team. He’s a businessman first, team owner second. Lebron was minting money for the past seven years. Now that gravy train is gone.
To keep the fans coming, they have to put a good product on the court. If they don’t, it will be a tough several years for the fans.
Gilbert’s got plenty of money. People aren’t going to fill the arena just to watch a mediocre team fight for the 8th spot in the playoffs. It’s better to rebuild and try to find another star player to build around then to wallow in mediocrity for years just to keep the fans happy.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 13, 2010 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I like the Arenas idea
Just remember before the surgeries and the gun incident, this guy was a top 3 shooting guard (ha! shooting guard!) I can’t think of any other elite player that is available and will play with more motivation and determination than Agent 0 will this season. H
A scandalous confession to start: I have not read all the replies.
I speak my mind, thus:
In a personal vein, I say: ""Oh Z, I thank you and wish you luck, etc. I love …"
As a hardened fan, I say: “You are largely cooked and you are taking a stab at a championship on a short (but exceptionally good) roster. It’s the best thing for you and still sorta ugly. Whatever. You won’t matter much, in the end.”
But hey, thanks Big Z. And I wish you every happiness.
Sad from a personal standpoint, irrelevant from a basketball standpoint
Z was done a couple years ago… Sad he’s not ending his career in Cleveland, but he’s next to worthless on the court now
Did LeBron James ever call anyone up and say he wanted them in Cleveland? Did he ever meet anyone at the airport to recruit them to play in his “hometown?”
"Facebook is bad news. It and Jason Donald both crush dreams." - JRontherim
by woodsmeister on Jul 14, 2010 9:18 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
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