Scouting The Rookies: Kyrie, TT, Knight Impress
So, there was a preseason game tonight. As Conrad already laid out, the game was frankly pretty horrible. Virtually unwatchable. Every other possession seemed to be a Samardo Samuels free throw -- he shot 16 of them, in most likely the first and only time in his career Samardo shoots more than 10 free throws in a game. The Cavs overall shot 56 of them, which makes for some pretty atrocious basketball to watch. The 4 of my friends who were watching alongside me all dropped out about midway through the first half. I persevered, though, and got to witness the first Cavaliers regulation December win since 2010. Amazing, right? The Cavs last won a non-OT game in December way back in 2010. A 106-101 tilt over the Atlanta Hawks on December 30th, 2010. Yes, it was only the preseason. No, the game doesn't mean anything. But it's nice to see the Cavs win every once in a while. After the jump, some scouting-type thoughts on what we can glean from our young rookies (and Brandon Knight).
I'll start at the top, and that means the best player. Kyrie Irving. There are definitely going to be some growing pains, but Kyrie is without question the 2nd best player on this team behind Anderson Varejao right now. Kyrie's full array of moves was on display tonight -- killer back and forth dribble, impossibly quick stop-on-a-dime lateral quickness, his brilliant long range bomb passes, his lockdown free throw shooting (90% free throw shooter in college, believe it or not), and his ridiculous setup passing through the tiniest of defensive seams. Showed it all off, in various forms. Atop that? Endless, endless hustle. My favorite sequence for Kyrie was one where Samardo missed a point blank layup that was about to go out of bounds, but Kyrie leaped past the stanchion and flung the ball into Eyenga's hands to save the possession. It was some Manu Ginobili type hustle, and that's fun to see in a point guard. My best-case-scenario for Kyrie has always been as a talent just under where Chris Paul settled at during his peak. This game did nothing to dissuade me from that.
Perhaps his best attribute was the way he drew fouls. His shot was absolutely busted tonight (which, by the way, won't last -- he was a knockdown shooter in college at >40% from three, and he took at least two NBA-length threes per game at Duke), but he still found the gaps and seams that players like Chris Paul find when their shots are off. And he used some tricky shot fakes (which the defensively defunct Pistons roster continued to bite on) to leverage a ton of free throws, in the end making up for his iffy shooting night. He wasn't afraid to body up his man on defense, and while Knight made him look awfully silly once or twice, it wasn't all bad -- he did a good job contesting Knight's shots and helped force him into a relatively awful shooting night. And his steals were exquisite -- I haven't seen a rookie point guard quite as good at forcing the steal and recovering after missed opportunities as Kyrie was in this game since Paul. That's not an overstatement. He's an extreme pest, but he recovered quick enough that he didn't ever seem to blow his rotation. Overall, very promising.
Problems, though? There were some. Mostly rookie issues, and not ones that seriously concerned me. But problems all the same. His shot looked bad -- it had a slight hitch in it, and seemed to consistently miss the rim by a few inches left and right depending on the side of the court he shot it from. Not altogether concerning, as he was a lockdown free throw shooter (indicating he'll shoot quite a bit better over the course of a season), but certainly not fun. And then the turnovers. A lot of these weren't really his fault -- there were teammates completely out of position, strange calls, etc. But there were at least 3 passes that were really nowhere near the target. Most point guards have that their rookie year, but I was sort of hoping Kyrie wouldn't be quite that bad. While many people would point to his lack of assists as a possible issue, I'd say that's a red herring -- I counted 4 or 5 passes that SHOULD have ended with a basket, and only didn't because Samardo Samuels and Micheal Thompson are absolutely awful NBA players. Playing with the starters and Varejao, I could see him having 6-8 assists in this game. That's solid. So, he ended with a somewhat empty but seriously promising 21-6-3 in just 27, with 6-8 assists if he'd played with anyone other than Samuels. A solid outcome for him. And would seem to support the supposition that he's the odds on favorite for RoY.
Speaking of Brandon Knight, I know this is about Kyrie and TT, but I wanted to emphasize that Knight really impressed me. His statline was rather mundane (9-2-4 on 33.3% shooting in 22 minutes), but what he showed on the court was rather impressive. In a weird way, he reminds me of Brandon Jennings from his rookie year -- his potential doesn't seem to be in the Tyreke/Paul/Kyrie/Wall/Rose stratosphere, but just below them. That of the serviceable chucking guard who makes about 4 brilliant passes a game, takes a lot of bad shots, and is a lot better than his stats would indicate. And, hopefully, cuts down on the turnovers -- like Kyrie, they weren't all his fault, but he needs to slow down sometimes and let the game come to him. It's not a race, it's a slog -- especially in a season like this one.
Finally, a few words on Tristan Thompson. I came into the game with absolutely no idea how he'd play, and somewhat excited to see how he acquitted himself. He left me feeling just as confused (if not moreso) than I was before. He was in the right places on defense for much of the first half, but he couldn't buy a rebound to save his life and essentially just kept fouling. His shot was busted, he couldn't finish, and his rebounding was awful. Enter the second half: Thompson proceeded to absolutely beast it, throwing down 2 rim shattering dunks in the fourth, some of the most effective shot blocks I've seen in a while, and some stifling defense on Greg Monroe and Jason Maxiell (who, to his credit, still was able to beast all over Thompson by the end of the quarter when Thompson began to tire out). His rebounding was great, his movement off the ball was great, and he simply looked really, really good. There's no getting around that. But that doesn't really erase just how singularly awful he was in the first, or how incredibly bad he is at shooting the ball in any form (including free throws). Last year, DeAndre Jordan had 222 out of 234 of his baskets either assisted or coming on offensive rebound putbacks. Ideally? That's the kind of shot chart Tristan needs to be looking at, until he can figure out how to get over his absurd length and properly shoot the basketball. Beyond that, though, he doesn't really look like a bust -- he's extremely raw, but talented and already quite a bit better than a bust like Thabeet ever was. I didn't like this pick when it was called, and I still don't -- I think there are a wealth of players we could've taken who will be better when their careers are all said and done. But he looks like he has a chance to be something in this league.
What that is, exactly, I don't know -- but something. And that counts, you know?
For more of Aaron's writing, check his twitter (@docrostov) and baroque-style blog (the Gothic Ginobili).
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I really wonder if we’re going to have to live with a massive TO rate this year from Kyrie. Of those guys you mentioned, Paul and Rose have turned the ball over at a similar, and not bad at all, rate every year of their career. Wall had the worst rate of any of them in his rookie year (easily) so I imagine he’ll improve. Evans actually got worse at it in year two and then Westbrook is the only one who has actually trended better in each season of his career. Although to be fair to Rose and Paul, they didn’t have a problem with it to begin with.
Probably won’t be terrible with the turnovers, but as a rookie point guard, it will be pretty significant. I’m not super concerned, it comes with the progress
FearTheSword, SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers blog
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Dec 17, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
I’m stoked to see Kyrie getting himself to the line when the shots weren’t falling – I hope he continues. It took Rose a solid 2-3 years before he realized getting into the lane and drawing fouls was more efficient over a season than jacking 18 foot jumpers.
As for TT, I’m skeptical as well. I have a feeling that the 2011 draft is going to be a massive failure a la the 2006 draft (dear lord let Kyrie pan out better than Bargs at least…). Faced with a slew of possible/probable busts I think Grant just went with a limited player who can carve out a useful role.
by Brazillian Dandy on Dec 17, 2011 11:05 AM CST reply actions
We’ll see. The difference with Kyrie and Rose is that Kyrie was a knockdown shooter in college. That jump shot is there. He won’t miss those usually.
FearTheSword, SBNation's Cleveland Cavaliers blog
by Conrad Kaczmarek on Dec 17, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Certainly, but there will always be days when the shots just won’t fall. It’s good to see he can still be effective even on an off night.
by Brazillian Dandy on Dec 17, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
horrible game
The thing that gives me comfort is that the defense looked decent, which is what they have been learning.
The cavs start learning the offense this week and they should shape up a bit more with that.
Also, after the game I saw Chicago and cleveland highlights back to back and Kyrie moves like d rose. It’s a good sign for us. I wanted him to get more assists but you gotta have players finish for that.
Final thought. Why is Luke Harangody playing for us again? All he has succeeded in doing is rule our only legitimate SF out of preseason.
by ryoung3 on Dec 17, 2011 2:03 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
Any game that ends with a Cavs win is not horrible.
The defenseless Huskies vs a Heisman Trophy winner. I smell shenanigans ahead!
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
The Cavs last won a non-OT game in December way back in 2010.
By that you mean that was the last game you witnessed?
The defenseless Huskies vs a Heisman Trophy winner. I smell shenanigans ahead!
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
No, I mean it is literally the last non-OT game the Cavaliers franchise has won since December 30th, 2010. Not being facetious. Look it up. The only game the Cavs won last December was a tilt against the Knicks, in OT. Also, nice to see you again! You used to comment on PTR threads, yes?
"Whereas I never went fly like some of the boys." -- Ice
Wave is definitely a well-traveled individual.
I run into him all over the place.
Go Suns, Packers, Jays, and Huskers!
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Yeah, you too
The defenseless Huskies vs a Heisman Trophy winner. I smell shenanigans ahead!
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
In 2011, the Cavs won 10 non OT games.
Including victories against the hated Heat and the increasingly tiresome Lakers.
The defenseless Huskies vs a Heisman Trophy winner. I smell shenanigans ahead!
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.
Here's the schedule.
http://espn.go.com/nba/team/schedule/_/name/cle/year/2011/seasontype/2/cleveland-cavaliers
The defenseless Huskies vs a Heisman Trophy winner. I smell shenanigans ahead!
A new Mike Brown era is about to begin.

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